Smart RV Capability

[flyboy013]

"The solution does utilize MQTT, but it is not designed to be an interface to external systems. The MQTT server is currently userid/password protected. The goal is to secure it further with SSL, limiting access to LAN, and restricting accounts to reading/writing only a portion of the data in the database. I worked developing DoD systems for quite some time and understand the need for securing the system."

Are you saying that with proper credentials, that a third party system couldn't use the MQTT to bidirectionally control KIB / RV-C devices using your solution?

The system is being design too be locked down such that only the required network ports are exposed and that those ports are as secure as possible. I’ve developed quite a bit of software for the DoD and fully understand the need to and value of properly securing systems. That’s not to say that access to the MQTT server cannot be made available, it’s just not there now as has been no need.

I would rather leverage your solution (including pointing people to buy yours or resell yours) than spend the effort to reverse the KIB protocol for the small number of expected people that would want to use it (relatively speaking). The two systems would be on same LAN. The user IDs would belong to the owner of the RV. Certainly we would need to know how to pass and accept the authentication method you use.

So hardware wise, on your RV - is your hardware on a breadboard?

Not really. I 3D printed some support brackets to mount the required components, but there are still some jumper wires.

And your talented kids are helping you get it onto a PCB?
FYI, there are lots of free PCB design software (Kicad is one).

I am currently using KiCad for my design work. FYI - The RPi itself is designed with KiCad.


Once you have your circuit in the software, you just email the resultant file to one of thousands of inexpensive PCB manufacturers that support that output format. Then a week later, you will get the PCB populated or not (depending on what you choose). Easy peasy.

Would be nice if the PCB was designed as a Raspberry Pi4 Hat.
Another thing to consider is I assume KIB is just a CAN based protocol. There are lots of PCB / Hats for CAN readily available. Just write your software for it.

KIB is not CAN based.

 

[DavidL]

The system is being design too be locked down such that only the required network ports are exposed and that those ports are as secure as possible. I’ve developed quite a bit of software for the DoD and fully understand the need to and value of properly securing systems. That’s not to say that access to the MQTT server cannot be made available, it’s just not there now as has been no need.


Not really. I 3D printed some support brackets to mount the required components, but there are still some jumper wires.


I am currently using KiCad for my design work. FYI - The RPi itself is designed with KiCad.


Once you have your circuit in the software, you just email the resultant file to one of thousands of inexpensive PCB manufacturers that support that output format. Then a week later, you will get the PCB populated or not (depending on what you choose). Easy peasy.

KIB is not CAN based.

Ok, my next guess on KIB is it is RS485 and maybe Modbus? I have some info here somewhere in a directory...just do not have enough detail to write software to without reverse engineering it (like you have).
I guess I am with these questions understanding if we can work together on your hardware talking KIB / possibly RV-C and bidirectionally sending data via MQTT to our myServer 6 application for rules / UI / integration with lots of other stuff. If you have other plans, that's cool too. Just keeping this on my radar as a neat integration that some might enjoy.

Yes, totally get the some folks want secure. Our system has configuration options for levels of security as well. We use it in many government installations now where that is spec required.

 

[Always_curious]

Ok, my next guess on KIB is it is RS485 and maybe Modbus? I have some info here somewhere in a directory...just do not have enough detail to write software to without reverse engineering it (like you have).
I guess I am with these questions understanding if we can work together on your hardware talking KIB / possibly RV-C and bidirectionally sending data via MQTT to our myServer 6 application for rules / UI / integration with lots of other stuff. If you have other plans, that's cool too. Just keeping this on my radar as a neat integration that some might enjoy.

Yes, totally get the some folks want secure. Our system has configuration options for levels of security as well. We use it in many government installations now where that is spec required.

The system is being design too be locked down such that only the required network ports are exposed and that those ports are as secure as possible. I’ve developed quite a bit of software for the DoD and fully understand the need to and value of properly securing systems. That’s not to say that access to the MQTT server cannot be made available, it’s just not there now as has been no need.


Not really. I 3D printed some support brackets to mount the required components, but there are still some jumper wires.


I am currently using KiCad for my design work. FYI - The RPi itself is designed with KiCad.


Once you have your circuit in the software, you just email the resultant file to one of thousands of inexpensive PCB manufacturers that support that output format. Then a week later, you will get the PCB populated or not (depending on what you choose). Easy peasy.

KIB is not CAN based.

Flyboy
I have a 2021 LADP and am very interested in the automation work you’re doing in “your spare time”. We’re located in New York and will probably be driving through MD sometime before end of year. Am interested in installing your beta if you’re willing. I am a technologist and handy so can probably do most of the work with a little support. Let me know if you’d like to discuss.

 

[flyboy013]

So here’s an update …

While at the Newmar International Rally last month, I approached Newmar engineering about the developed capability. They liked what they saw, but were not interested in any kind of direct relationship to make this a Newmar capability. I was basically told to work with KIB. I did provide a demonstration to KIB. They liked what they saw and indicated that they were going to start developing a similar capability in about a year. They said they would be interested in hiring me to help them. Well that ain’t going to happen. The days of me working for someone else are long gone. Plus, I suspect a KIB developed capability will be limited to KIB functionality and not truly fulfill the needs of Newmar owners (this will probably depend on which model you have and what other systems are also installed).

So, if I want this capability to see the light of day (beyond my MH), it’s going to be up to me to market, sell, support, etc the capability.

I’m currently on the road out west and will be back in MD in the fall and will then be heading to SW FL for the winter. My current thought is to identify a beta tester in SW Florida as I will be there to babysit the system and resolve any problems that may occur.

While on the road, I’m continuing to improve capability. As we crossed 3 timelines my automations occurred earlier and earlier. I now automatically update the system clock based on the current GPS based time zone so that automations continue to happen at the right time. Another one of those capabilities that only someone who travels/lives in their will full appreciated and understand the need for it. I always wondered why my Silverleaf system didn’t update automatically.

 

[Always_curious]

So here’s an update …

While at the Newmar International Rally last month, I approached Newmar engineering about the developed capability. They liked what they saw, but were not interested in any kind of direct relationship to make this a Newmar capability. I was basically told to work with KIB. I did provide a demonstration to KIB. They liked what they saw and indicated that they were going to start developing a similar capability in about a year. They said they would be interested in hiring me to help them. Well that ain’t going to happen. The days of me working for someone else are long gone. Plus, I suspect a KIB developed capability will be limited to KIB functionality and not truly fulfill the needs of Newmar owners (this will probably depend on which model you have and what other systems are also installed).

So, if I want this capability to see the light of day (beyond my MH), it’s going to be up to me to market, sell, support, etc the capability.

I’m currently on the road out west and will be back in MD in the fall and will then be heading to SW FL for the winter. My current thought is to identify a beta tester in SW Florida as I will be there to babysit the system and resolve any problems that may occur.

While on the road, I’m continuing to improve capability. As we crossed 3 timelines my automations occurred earlier and earlier. I now automatically update the system clock based on the current GPS based time zone so that automations continue to happen at the right time. Another one of those capabilities that only someone who travels/lives in their will full appreciated and understand the need for it. I always wondered why my Silverleaf system didn’t update automatically.

Thanks for the update! Yikes. Partnering with KIB would probably be a nightmare. I don’t think they have the right architecture, and more importantly, the right product vision. Where in SW FL. The reason we’ll be passing through MD in fall is on the way to Naples where we’ll spend 3 months at the Naples Motor Coach resort (until end of Feb).

 

[DavidL]

Not too surprising the response from Newmar and KIB. Roll your own. I was in your situation about 15 years ago. Now on my own with thousands of clients. But it's a full time and a half job. Are you REALLY retired? But heck of a lot better to be working hard for myself than for the big ole company. The offer stands if you would like to work together. At some point I will roll up the sleeves to catch up on KIB / RV-C protocol. Too many other projects and that's why I want to work with you since you have already been down that path. Secure MQTT integration

 

[flyboy013]

Thanks for the update! Yikes. Partnering with KIB would probably be a nightmare. I don’t think they have the right architecture, and more importantly, the right product vision. Where in SW FL. The reason we’ll be passing through MD in fall is on the way to Naples where we’ll spend 3 months at the Naples Motor Coach resort (until end of Feb).

PM sent.

 

[MiKaLo]

Right now I would just like to be able to use my smartphone or tablet to access the KIB panel!
Turn lights on/off, shades etc without having to access panels in each room.
Then add capabilities from there.

 

[the_fu]

@flyboy013 - I am a long time class A owner that just purchased a 2021 Newmar NA 3543. I am an automation nerd. I need what you have for my new coach. I think I can help you in a lot of ways. I just recently exited from 9 years helping build the most successful aquarium automation equipment on the market - the Apex - and helping sell it off to PE. PM me as since I am new here it seems it will not allow me to PM you. We should talk.

 

[Madmellow]

This is exactly what I want to accomplish on my 2022 MADP, with the ultimate goal of connecting to HomeSeer. Any advice would help. What HW? Where are the RV-C ports? I’m just starting.

 

[Neal]

Whomever...feel free to start a thread among developers for programming your coach.

 

[SteveMA]

Coming in late, but hot... very interested in how this project has evolved. I find the KIB UI a pain and the lack of flexibility somewhat (LOL) disappointing. Add to that all the other things that should be available and 110% supportive of your direction. For the record, EE, started coding on mainframes in 1973, own a company that does significant hardware and UI/UX installations for good sized customers, much of it ends up in DoD realm. I no longer code (old and too dense I think) but lots of young minds around. These coaches and the control systems are really due for the next generation. I am sure Newmar is afraid of making it too hard for the target demographic to understand (and appreciate that) but that does not mean the programming has to be Lowest Common Denominator, which it is. On the other hand, KIB is just afraid.

 

[bpaikman]

That is really slick! You should make a business out of it smart enabling RV's.

Exactly

 

[eweber]

flyboy013, hello! Do you by chance have this for beta for a 2016 London Aire? My home uses homekit/siri/crestron automation. I'm missing any type of automation in our london aire.

Let me know if you have something available, thank you.

Eric Weber

 

[Rustymayes]

Picking up our 2022 4081 on Saturday. Is there any standard wireless connectivity to the coach systems from the factory? I do not have a good handle on how the system is set up. I assume it is all digitally controlled but just on multiple remote key pads. Looking for info as I would like to be able to monitor systems at least. I am not sure I need to be able to operate the systems from my phone though.
Thanks, Getting excited to pick her up!

 

[SteveMA]

Checking on any new efforts here. In Maryland for about a month. I have started to hack around the systems on our 2020 MA. After making some progress with the SilverLeaf and KIB automation - really feel that the battle to make them play nice in 2023 is more an issue of original simple objectives in KIB and closed SL design architectures. (I have respect for SilverLeaf - anyone who has a servant named Rozie and assigns a certain 2 digit PW with literary significance deserves a tip of the hat!)

Have been studying J1939 to bring chassis and powertrain into the project for viewing and possibly as real time triggers for actions/automation. This all feels like a winter project (translation... I am likely underestimating this by a year or two

Still finalizing what to use to create a robust front end controller, as well as secure IoT, hardware interfaces and flexible UI. The recent WFR / Newmar cloud security debacle is an indication of what needs to be avoided. Several on my team work on projects that demand high security protocols - will bring them into the mix as this starts to gel.

I am leaning toward treating SL-KIB as almost dumb nodes to bolt onto the new structure. While something like crestron (we sell a lot of crestron) is useful, it is a programming nightmare and very hard to change without the secret smoking club handshake and some voodoo. The goal is to find a balance between features, ease of user options, extendability and reliability. No doubt I will tear a lot of hair out over 2023... 2024... LOL.
Always interested to exchange wishes, ideas and pain points.