Some thing you know, others you just don’t.

[marc2912]

So just a warning that this is probably going to be a wall of text. You might have seen my name here and there, I purchased a 2015 Dutch Star for me and my family to travel a few months back. I went from nothing, to deciding to make a drastic change in the way we live our lives etc. This purchase is also tied around an up and coming move and my wife being able to stop working for a while and me being able to work fully remote.

After reading a lot, looking at a lot of videos, talking to a lot of people, and searching for a class A that works for us I finally pulled the trigger at the start of the year. Besides the Diesel prices, lol (you can only laugh about it because the alternate is crying) and the fact that prices are crashing for used RVs because of those Diesel prices I don’t have any regrets.

I drove back the beast from Houston to NY and we even took our first trip in it for Easter weekend. I have no room where I live to store it but my brother in law has a large driveway about an hour north of us and we’ve been parking it there. I think I’ve figured most of the plumbing/sewer system, we have a macerating sewer out which is nice, though I honestly don’t understand the need or gain from it. Why does the waste need to be shredded prior to getting pushed down an RV park sewer line…

Anyways, the one system I’m really still not 100% with is the electric system. I understand the house battery setup, I understand the chassis battery setup, I understand the inverter, I understand that the chassis battery are two large starting battery for cranking over the diesel (and it seems the generator?). The chassis batteries seem to be 8x 6V marine/deep cycle battery with two banks of 4 in parallel and the two banks in series two give me 12V. From there it goes to the inverter which can bring it up to 110V and also charge the batteries as needed.

Now silly me I figured if all power was off I could leave the RV parked for shorter periods of times. I.E. a few weeks. When I returned from Houston the bus sat a week at a time since between me going to it to work on it. While working on it I would start the generator for a few hours (4 or so) and return the week after. After a few weeks we went on our Easter trip. I returned and parked the RV and didn’t get to come back to it for 2 weeks. Generator was a hard start and I hit the power boost and it turned over. I ran it for 4 hours while working on things. I didn’t get to return for another 2 weeks. This time everything was dead. It looks like it’s possibly going to be a very expensive lesson.

I checked chassis batteries individually and both were around 5V, the house batteries were reading at 5.6V at the inverter instead of 12V. I tried hooking to shore power via 15amp cord, but the inverter refused to charge the batteries and returned a fault and dead battery message. I put one of the chassis batteries on a battery tender, (I went out and purchased a decent one) and it reported the battery as bad. Even after 4 hours on the tender the battery refused to take a charge. Both chassis batteries needed to be replaced. This gave me power back to start the engine / generator. Once I started the generator the inverter started charging the house batteries. After charging for about 2 hours I had to leave so I killed the generator, and watched the battery voltage drop between 9-10 volts, my hope is the house batteries being deep cycle will recover better from such a low voltage than the chassis battery. I reconnected the shore power and set the controller on the magnum inverter to max pull 10amp from the shore power. It resumed charging which was a good sign.

Before leaving I went back to the chassis battery bay where there is a large disconnect switch and i turned it off, it seems to kill power which prevents engine / generator function. This doesn’t seem to affect the inverter or house battery charging. I also did trip pretty much everything from the main breaker panel.

Now $600 on new batteries and a battery tender here’s what I learned: my RV can’t sit for any extended period of time disconnected from power. My assumption is that there are decent phantom battery drains which is what led to me finding the RV in the state it was in. I’m assuming that as I have it now it should be sustainable from a battery management standpoint but looking for advice/viewpoints.

Some questions thought…

• Why were my chassis batteries dead, I would have assumed that the chassis batteries were on an independent system and that they wouldn’t have been drained
• Also associated to the chassis battery is wether or not the inverter would also charge those or are they only recharged from the actual Diesel engine running?
• Is the shutoff switch i killed in the Chassis battery bay what I think it is? By that I mean have I isolated those batteries preventing possible discharge?
• What is the main power shutoff switch in the RV on the main control panel? (It has a post it which says do not use without assistance, I still need to google that one but any assistance is appreciated).
• I think my RV might even have a generator auto start setup. Is that configured through the Magnum controller? Also does that do what I think, and by that I mean would that automatically start and stop the generator to recharge the house batteries when they drop below a certain voltage? Is that safe to let run unsupervised
• Considering getting a 600 watt solar array to prevent any of this from repeating itself since it seems the RV was pre-wired for Solar by Newmar, thoughts on that approach.

While I did get a pretty decent walkthrough of the RV when I went to look/purchase it (4+ hours) and read and watched countless videos it’s very clear I still have a lot to learn.

I did warn you, wall of text, and for that I apologize. If you read this far and have any advise please do share.

 

[Neal]

Marc,

Yes, that's quite the thesis, I read as much as I could comprehend pre-coffee, let me try to answer a few items:

• The disconnect at the chassis batteries is for those batteries, not the house batteries, a separate bank.
• The chassis batteries should hold a charge if fully charged and there is a small solar panel on the roof, aft area, that should trickle charge the chassis batteries.
• Are they the original chassis batteries? If so, they probably need to be replaced. I just had mine replaced when at Freightliner (Gaffney) not because of any symptoms, simply nearing 5 years old. Keep in mind these batteries are likely in the chassis 6 months before your coach was ever built.
• House batteries can be shutoff by what's called a "salesman switch" which is in the overhead cabinet near the entry door or on the side of the entry door area depending on year of the coach.
• There could be parasitic drains on anything and everything, not sure, but expect it. So either some sort of power connection is good, or solar panels help too, assuming not in covered storage.
• If your coach has AGS, then yes it could be configured but you can't use the shutoff options above, but it can be programmed to run the GEN when voltages get low.

These coaches are complex and the learning curve is steep. I learned by asking questions on forums like this, please continue to do so. It takes time but you'll get it.

 

[marc2912]

Marc,

Yes, that's quite the thesis, I read as much as I could comprehend pre-coffee, let me try to answer a few items:

• The disconnect at the chassis batteries is for those batteries, not the house batteries, a separate bank.
• The chassis batteries should hold a charge if fully charged and there is a small solar panel on the roof, aft area, that should trickle charge the chassis batteries.
• Are they the original chassis batteries? If so, they probably need to be replaced. I just had mine replaced when at Freightliner (Gaffney) not because of any symptoms, simply nearing 5 years old. Keep in mind these batteries are likely in the chassis 6 months before your coach was ever built.
• House batteries can be shutoff by what's called a "salesman switch" which is in the overhead cabinet near the entry door or on the side of the entry door area depending on year of the coach.
• There could be parasitic drains on anything and everything, not sure, but expect it. So either some sort of power connection is good, or solar panels help too, assuming not in covered storage.
• If your coach has AGS, then yes it could be configured but you can't use the shutoff options above, but it can be programmed to run the GEN when voltages get low.

These coaches are complex and the learning curve is steep. I learned by asking questions on forums like this, please continue to do so. It takes time but you'll get it.

Thanks Neal, it’s actually been quite a humbling experience. The chassis batteries were 2 years old so that was a bit of a disappointment to lose those, not counting the cost. I’ve never seen the dash solar charge indicator led so I think there’s probably something wrong there.

The house batteries are original so those will need to be replaced but it’s a much larger investment and I’m still debating what size bank I’ll do and if I’ll switch to Lithium or not. I would prefer to be able to schedule that replacement due to cost.

For the AGS system it makes sense that I can’t isolate either batteries since it needs one set to start and the other to charge. Is that a safe system to let run with an unattended RV?

 

[Neal]

Is that a safe system to let run with an unattended RV?

Personally, I have no problem with it. Whether in storage or at a campground while I'm away. Opinions will differ on this of course. As I originally has storage without power I added solar to my coach. The biggest value of that endeavor was learning the electrical system much better in the end.

 

[marc2912]

I’m also going to invest into a decent remote monitoring system, temps, voltage and anything else worth monitoring. If anyone has strong recommendations I’m all ears but about to start that search project

 

[Neal]

Myself, @Chuggs, @Richpatty all went the Victron route and they have a component in the solar setup called a Venus GX (there are other variants in their offering) that allow remote monitoring and management. Very cool!

Venus GX - Victron Energy

Talk to all components in your system and ensure they are working in harmony using the Venus GX. Learn more now.

www.victronenergy.com

 

[bpaikman]

We just got back from dropping off our 'new-to-us' coach for some upgrade work - that was one issue we addressed. We were occasionally seeing a 'low battery' message on the dashboard - we don't have a chassis disconnect, so we're having one installed.
In our previous coach, there was a rotary chassis battery switch at the rear. First thing we always did was open the rear compartment and turn on the chassis switch. And the last thing we did when storing was turn off that switch. Never had 'low battery' reading after storage, even after several weeks.
Our new coach apparently doesn't have a chassis disconnect. I'd been noticing that even after we hit the 'salesman switch' when storing, everything in the cab area was still functional. The overhead light (helps me find the ignition switch - we have it stored in an unlighted garage), the power steps. Convenient when we're using it frequently, but we sometimes go 3-4 weeks without using it,
(To figure out what might drain it, i suppose you could turn off everything at night, turn off the salesman switch, and look for anything lighted. Turns out we had a few things that remain lighted)

 

[NWIP]

Here is a good resource reference your batteries and management of AGS provided by @redbaron

RedBaron's Simple Guide to Battery Life in your RV

This guide explains the 12-volt battery system found in all RV’s and how to properly maintain them. There is specific information relating to Magnum Inverter/Chargers and Newmar motorhomes that use these chargers. Even if your system does not...

rvforums.com

 

[Buly]

I will be leaving the coach in MI RV park for about 10 days. It will be hooked to 50A. But I'm very nervous that if the breaker the post trips, the batteries will last only about 2 days. Thinking of connecting somehow my Wyze camera to monitor from Europe something that will let me know that the main power is off? That way I can call someone to check the breaker.
Unless there are other options?

 

[redbaron]

Here is a good resource reference your batteries and management of AGS provided by @redbaron

RedBaron's Simple Guide to Battery Life in your RV

This guide explains the 12-volt battery system found in all RV’s and how to properly maintain them. There is specific information relating to Magnum Inverter/Chargers and Newmar motorhomes that use these chargers. Even if your system does not...

rvforums.com

I need to update this for the silver leaf. Sounds like a fun summer project.

 

[marc2912]

I need to update this for the silver leaf. Sounds like a fun summer project.

Reading through this right now.

Good stuff sir.

For example I did not know that the alternator would charge all batteries. I also did not know that the engine’s alternator could create enough power that I could use the inverter without the generator running. I’m just getting on the in depth for the Magnum system which is great because it’s the system I have.

Thank you for taking the time to put all this together.

 

[redbaron]

Reading through this right now.

Good stuff sir.

For example I did not know that the alternator would charge all batteries. I also did not know that the engine’s alternator could create enough power that I could use the inverter without the generator running. I’m just getting on the in depth for the Magnum system which is great because it’s the system I have.

Thank you for taking the time to put all this together.

This document will also apply to your coach:

Simple Guide to your Newmar PCS EMS

This guide explains the operation of your Newmar energy management system. This is specific to Newmar RVs with the Magnum inverter/charger and Precision Control Systems (PCS) EMS, commonly found in…

newmarhoots.com

 

[Richpatty]

Hi Marc,

Looks like you got some great data from some of the smartest folks here. I don’t have much to add except that the salesmen switch does not cut EVERYTHING off….there is always more little items pulling a little bit here and there. If you will be storing it without an electric hookup, you can add a cutoff switch in the battery compartment on the 12 v line to really cut it off…

If you get lithium for the house batteries, I did just finish a rebuild of my battery compartment for the new batteries if you have any questions.

Good luck with the new rig!

 

[Old-RV'er]

Marc, in case I missed it, make sure that the INVERTER is disabled when not using coach. It (I think this is correct), needs a 3 or 30-amp standby current if enabled, so you don't need it in storage. DISABLE IT. Also make sure the AGS (automatic generator start) program is also off/disabled.
Regardless, the entry steps are powered all the time. The Chassis switch turns off all power to chassis, but steps are still hot, there are most likely other things. In ours, sales switch needed to be on for anything on the dash to work, lights inside, etc., but genset would still start if it was off. My rule of thumb was to go over to ours weekly and run genset for couple hours to keep everything up to snuff.
Other things will need exercise as well. In winter, run the Heat Pumps on AC to keep the reversing valve limbered up, and vice-versa for summer. If propane furnace, run it in summer as well, to keep it working, and dust burned out of the combustion chamber. Unless they have changed rule, suburban did NOT allow those screens to be permanently installed over the intake/exhaust ports for it, so figure out some quick disconnect options. Sanitize the water system at least every 6 months or use the coach at least monthly. Empty black/gray tanks before putting into storage.
I think, based on years of owning property with septic tanks, the macerator system makes it easier on the sewage to be broken down, since aint no big pieces. Many if not all RV parks on their own septic system, so that makes it easier on that. School in disarray on chemical in black tank, I used blue power, never had problem. If oasis system, I personally think it's better than Hydro-hot. Maintenance is easier, I think. However, we limited our diesel burner time (at that time not for cost, as much as in park paying for electricity anyway), so think when we sold it had 20 hours on it.
I change oil in genset annually, with new Oil Filter. Every other year, fuel, air, and oil/filter. Believe the rule is 150 hours, if not living on it every day, that is about a year. Amazon has best prices on the filters, regardless, if, you want freightliner/Cummins to do that service, they will allow you to provide filters saving some money. I only purchased the Onan filters. Same for main engine/oil/fuel/water Seperator unit as well. Cummins may be giving veterans discount; they did last time I was in and had to ask for it.
Like everything in life, good places and bad places to get work done. Cummings in Chattanooga, TN, Coburg, OR, Portland, OR, freightliner in Tollefson, AZ all excellent. Lots more, others can chime in. Obviously, Gaffney, SC is good, Newmar Factory is also excellent, at least I was very happy with their work.
RTFM-are words to live buy, as that is sorta your bible on unit, it has the only suggested/recommended procedures to follow per Newmar's guidance. Don't necessarily not follow suggestions here, just know, changes occur, and the "new stuff" may not be good for your 2015 unit. So, check manual, first. Winterization is not hard, nor complicated, but MANDATORY if any freezing WX and coach is not being used. Download and print out procedures for MH, and also if washer/dryer/ice maker in fridge, follow those instruction to the letter. For my last one, I poured 5 gallons RV antifreeze into Home Depot orange bucket, and then let water pump suck it through system, starting with outside shower first since there. Washer has process, fridge has process, take your time, and everything will be fine, oh, if dual shower heads, make sure you get pink stuff into both of them. DO NOT USE AUTOMOTIVE ANTIFREEZE, it can kill you. Specifically RV ANTIFREEZE ONLY.
Sure I forgot something, good luck, glad ours is gone, do not miss pulling up to fuel fill at truck stop at all. Search for fuel discount program on this forum, name eludes me now.