Spartan chassis owners, be aware.

[redbaron]

As a leader of a publicly traded company, every statement of incorrect fact can result in a fine.

The NHTSA seems to be aware of the issue.

Casey, now is the time to step away from the keyboard and reflect on your position.

You have failed so far in your handling of this situation. Doubling down now is a mistake.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I know you will never admit you’re wrong, but you can stop digging.

Issue the recall and put this behind you. Take the loss and blame it on the market conditions and the historical decisions made before you arrived.

You didn’t make the decision to allow Spartan to stamp 5 digits. You didn’t even know that was an issue. How could you have known. It wasn’t on your radar. So why are you digging deeper.

The law is clear. I am not an attorney and I can clearly read where Spatan must have a vin. It is very clear your label isn’t compliant.

Call this education and find a way to make lemonade. Just stop digging!!!!

 

[NewmarPres]

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

From Grok. Note that using the Serial number on a frame is a standard practice


Is a Frame-Stamped Serial Number the Same as a VIN?


No, the unique serial number stamped on a vehicle’s frame is not officially considered the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) in modern vehicles (post-1981). However, it can serve a similar purpose for identification and is often derived from or identical to the VIN itself. Let me break this down clearly.


Key Differences

• Official VIN: This is the standardized 17-character code mandated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and international standards (ISO 3779). It’s required on all vehicles manufactured after 1981 and must be displayed in specific locations (e.g., dashboard, door jamb). The VIN encodes comprehensive details like manufacturer, model, year, and production sequence.
• Frame Serial Number: This is a stamped identifier (often just a numeric or alphanumeric code) etched directly into the vehicle’s frame or chassis during manufacturing. It’s primarily for anti-theft and forensic purposes—harder to alter than stickers or plates.
  • It’s not standardized like a VIN and doesn’t follow the 17-character format.
  • In many cases (especially for trucks, SUVs, or heavy-duty vehicles), the frame stamp is the full VIN or a portion of it (e.g., the last 8 digits of the VIS section). For example:
    • A Ford F-150 might have its complete 17-digit VIN stamped on the driver’s side frame rail near the front axle.
    • This is verifiable via manufacturer specs or NHTSA guidelines.

When It Can Be Used as a VIN Equivalent

• For Verification: If the frame stamp matches your vehicle’s official VIN (from the dashboard or documents), it can absolutely be used to confirm authenticity. Law enforcement and insurers often check frame stamps during theft investigations or title transfers.
• Older Vehicles (Pre-1981): Before the 17-digit VIN standard, vehicles used shorter serial numbers (sometimes called “serial numbers” or “chassis numbers”) stamped on the frame. These are considered the “VIN” for those eras and are still valid for registration in many places.
• Practical Use: Mechanics or parts suppliers might reference the frame stamp if the visible VIN is damaged, as it’s tamper-resistant.

How to Check

1. Locate the frame stamp (common spots: under the cab, near the transmission, or on the firewall—consult your owner’s manual).
2. Compare it to the official VIN on your title/registration.
3. If they match, treat it as a valid identifier. Tools like a VIN decoder (e.g., NHTSA’s free tool) can confirm details.

If the stamp doesn’t match or you’re dealing with a specific vehicle, it could indicate tampering—report it to authorities. For a particular make/model, share more details, and I can guide you on exact locations or decoding.

 

[GUS2000]

From the other forum - this was requested to be shared here

---

"Redbaron Ronnie and any other experts in their field, let me try again:
Do you have an experienced background in regulatory affairs with RVIA and NHTSA? I have one on my team.
Do you have a law degree and background in RV legal cases? I have many in our company and externally.
Ask yourself, if Newmar was not trying to help, how did Mr Warner have me on my personal phone when he was at the border for the second time trying to bring his coach across for sale? And why didn’t he mention that I had Spartan experts on the phone given I run a company and am not an expert? Strange that was not mentioned.
Ask yourself if this happened six months ago, why haven’t hundreds of others been stopped or thousands over the past years when the regulation hasn’t changed?
We are not hiding, my lawyers have told me I can confidently post the truth with the specific sections referenced of the regulation and how we are in compliance (go out and read our post before asking for the info we provided). Some YouTube click bait people may delete our replies or say we responded too late, but more than a day in advance of publication seems adequate.
Lastly, thank you to those who have tried to save my good name and Newmar’s. I hope to see you on the road.
If anyone can cross post this to RVforums.com, that would be appreciated. They wanted me to set up a corporate acct for $$$."

 

[Neal]

Yes, @NewmarPres registered here and like all other businesses they are required to have a Commercial account so his post was hidden as is others until they pay the commercial membership fee. So @NewmarPres like all other businesses was placed in "Commercial Inactive" mode and when they pay the $300/year fee the account will become active and able to post. I'm surprised irv2 is allowing the business account of Casey as "NewmarPres" to post without some sort of "sponsorship" as most typically are required to pay like @Brett Davis and all of @NIRVC's members participating. I'm sure the CEO of Newmar can afford to support this forum at only $300/year if he wishes to engage with the RVForums.com community which is what the commercial accounts are here for. This is a concept I invented at the launch of RVForums.com as I believe in RVers engaging with our commercial providers per this link which irv2 disallowed until I brought this on board and then they started the same of which I'm flattered.

I will ponder whether or not I allow @GUS2000's post to remain as he's posting on behalf of Casey who seems to not want to pay up the fee as others here do. Casey obviously is representing Newmar so it requires a commercial membership.

RVForums.com is heavily visited by Newmar owners so if Casey chooses not to support RVForums.com and participate with the Newmar family here, that's his choice.

 

[redbaron]

Grok is wrong.

Newmar president Casey is wrong.

Casey gave a word salad and used a lot of bluster rather than answer my very direct question. His refusal to answer is proof he is wrong.

My response to Casey on other site to his above post:

Casey: your response was a classic non response.

You gave us a word salad which is a clear signal that you are in full panic mode and have no idea what your doing.

You also took a lot of time to brag about the so called experts you have on your team, but for some reason with all the expert resources at your disposal you failed to answer my question.

Let’s try this again.

What part of the ruling allows for Spartan to deliver to Newmar a chassis without a vin?

Feel free to cite case law, or any other published precedent that gives you the comfort you are portraying.

If this task is too complicated for you to handle personally, I am sure one of your professionals experienced experts can help.

This is all that it takes to win me over. Show me the proof.

 

[MemoriesByTheMile]

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
From my non expert point of view it appears that Newmar is taking the position that since this hasn’t been an issue for thousands of border crossings over the years and hundreds of imports over that same period that this is one exception due to someone at the border not doing something correctly.

Can’t imagine the stress these King Aire owners from Canada must be going through and how other Newmar owners must be feeling and now changing any border crossing plans until they know this is resolved.

Ugh

 

[redbaron]

From the other forum - this was requested to be shared here

---

"Redbaron Ronnie and any other experts in their field, let me try again:
Do you have an experienced background in regulatory affairs with RVIA and NHTSA? I have one on my team.
Do you have a law degree and background in RV legal cases? I have many in our company and externally.
Ask yourself, if Newmar was not trying to help, how did Mr Warner have me on my personal phone when he was at the border for the second time trying to bring his coach across for sale? And why didn’t he mention that I had Spartan experts on the phone given I run a company and am not an expert? Strange that was not mentioned.
Ask yourself if this happened six months ago, why haven’t hundreds of others been stopped or thousands over the past years when the regulation hasn’t changed?
We are not hiding, my lawyers have told me I can confidently post the truth with the specific sections referenced of the regulation and how we are in compliance (go out and read our post before asking for the info we provided). Some YouTube click bait people may delete our replies or say we responded too late, but more than a day in advance of publication seems adequate.
Lastly, thank you to those who have tried to save my good name and Newmar’s. I hope to see you on the road.
If anyone can cross post this to RVforums.com, that would be appreciated. They wanted me to set up a corporate acct for $$$."

Quoting this thread. Casey deleted it when I challenged him with fact. Posting my responses directly after this quote. Preserving here so that history cannot be rewritten.

And as we see, Casey did ask for it to be placed here.

 

[redbaron]

Post 148:

By RedBaron73

As a leader of a publicly traded company, every statement of incorrect fact can result in a fine.

The NHTSA seems to be aware of the issue.

Casey, now is the time to step away from the keyboard and reflect on your position.

You have failed so far in your handling of this situation. Doubling down now is a mistake.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I know you will never admit you’re wrong, but you can stop digging.

Issue the recall and put this behind you. Take the loss and blame it on the market conditions and the historical decisions made before you arrived.

You didn’t make the decision to allow Spartan to stamp 5 digits. You didn’t even know that was an issue. How could you have known. It wasn’t on your radar. So why are you digging deeper.

The law is clear. I am not an attorney and I can clearly read where Spartan must have a vin. It is very clear your label isn’t compliant.

Call this education and find a way to make lemonade. Just stop digging!!!!

 

[redbaron]

 

[redbaron]

View attachment 29734

Casey:

I couldn’t agree more!!!

Would love to have you point out exactly which part of the regulation you find support for your assertions of full compliance.

First read this regulations found here:

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.ecfr.gov

Keep in mind that a Rv is manufactured in multiple stages. Spartan is the first stage and required to comply with all parts of 565.

As a second and final stage, Newmar is also required to comply with all parts of 565.

It’s not a pick and choose.

It clearly states a vin must be placed in a permanent fashion by each manufacturer. Spartan delivers a frame, with engine, wheels and tires. The vin must be permanently attached to a part of that vehicle on a place that cannot be removed.

No where does it say put just 5 digits of the 17 and call it a day. The full vin is required.

So tell me where in the regulation you find support for your full compliance?

Let’s have it in writing, no more videos and one way posts with comments disabled. Make your case and prove me wrong.

 

[redbaron]

Casey responds (and hours later deletes)

Redbaron Ronnie and any other experts in their field, let me try again:
Do you have an experienced background in regulatory affairs with RVIA and NHTSA? I have one on my team.
Do you have a law degree and background in RV legal cases? I have many in our company and externally.
Ask yourself, if Newmar was not trying to help, how did Mr Warner have me on my personal phone when he was at the border for the second time trying to bring his coach across for sale? And why didn’t he mention that I had Spartan experts on the phone given I run a company and am not an expert? Strange that was not mentioned.
Ask yourself if this happened six months ago, why haven’t hundreds of others been stopped or thousands over the past years when the regulation hasn’t changed?
We are not hiding, my lawyers have told me I can confidently post the truth with the specific sections referenced of the regulation and how we are in compliance (go out and read our post before asking for the info we provided). Some YouTube click bait people may delete our replies or say we responded too late, but more than a day in advance of publication seems adequate.
Lastly, thank you to those who have tried to save my good name and Newmar’s. I hope to see you on the road.
If anyone can cross post this to RVforums.com, that would be appreciated. They wanted me to set up a corporate acct for $$$."

 

[redbaron]

Originally Posted by USMCRET But that’s just me…an old Jarhead with a metric butt load of common sense.

 

[redbaron]

I am sure that with your common sense and real life , no BS no Spin just get it done attitude, you would return Newmar to the brand it was before the egos took over.

Casey wasn’t the one that started the downward spiral. That was “Maverick” after Matt Miller left.

In the early days when Casey talked directly to myself and others he expressed the right tone of making change but showing patience.

My last phone call with Casey he accused me of being disruptive to Newmar over my vocalization of poor quality control. I asked him to look at from the point of view of a consumer that loves the brand and the quality and planned on being a life long customer of Newmar.

Sadly, Casey wasn’t capable of even that simple task. Instead he is more focused on the elite NASCAR crowd that doesn’t reflect his core customer nor does it reflect the future of the RV industry.

Families RV to travel and see the country.

Couples retire for the RV lifestyle and for final memories and experiences.

Individuals buy RVs to socialize.

There is a mix of all of these reasons for all people and various budgets.

We all care about the quality of the RV we own. Newmar was hands down the best option because of the individuals and that spent a career building quality. Trust was implicit with the quality. When things went wrong, we trusted Newmar to make it right.

This changed when Matt Miller left, and I was very vocal about that during my 2022 purchase. We see a continuation of these quality concerns and other decisions with the latest focus on the VIN issue for all Spartan Chassis owners.

Now in the time for common sense to take over and Egos to be put aside.

I know Newmar executives are primarily from the washing machine and dishwasher business. This is not the same thing. Newmar RVs are not disposable assets.

Thankfully we do have the NHTSA and their rules are very clear.

So clear that Casey cannot answer my simple question above.

This will be resolved, and hopefully in a manner that doesn’t kick in the penalties that could be assessed.

I have done some research and found the following:

False or misleading statements to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) about compliance are prohibited under 49 U.S.C. § 33115 and other federal statutes.

Penalties:

1. Civil Penalties (Newmar)

-NHTSA can impose fines for noncompliance.

-Fines can reach up to $60,000 per violation per vehicle (adjusted periodically for inflation).

-Other remedies may include mandatory recall, correction, or reporting requirements.

2. Criminal Penalties (Casey Tubman)

Knowingly making false statements to federal authorities (like stating a vehicle has a compliant VIN when it does not) falls under 18 U.S.C. § 1001.

Potential penalties:

-Fines: Up to $250,000 for individuals, higher for organizations

-Imprisonment: Up to 5 years

3.Other Consequences:

-The manufacturer could face liability for defective or non-compliant vehicles, including recalls.

-Vehicles could be deemed illegal for sale, leading to financial and reputational losses.

Key Points:

-The severity of penalties depends on whether the false statement was intentional, material, or repeated.

-Even unintentional errors can trigger civil penalties.

-The combination of regulatory and criminal consequences makes compliance critical for manufacturers.

 

[redbaron]

Casey deleted his prior post after my comment.