Take That Flag Down Or Get Out

[sheridany]

All across America the flags fly...

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

And dont mind me when I immediately walk away from you back into my rig, I’m just grabbing you a beer and a chair.

Remind me to knock on your door and complain about something...anything. Any craft IPA will be just fine! The chair is optional; I can drink beer just standing around.

 

[AbdRahim]

FL-Joe: Thanks on all accounts.

 

[MapNerd]

Remind me to knock on your door and complain about something...anything. Any craft IPA will be just fine! The chair is optional; I can drink beer just standing around.

Sorry, you won’t get an IPA from me. They taste like feet. Hope you like Lagers, maybe a Belgian Triple if you’re lucky.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Actually, my preference runs to amber and dark ales, but I'd never turn down a lager and the opportunity for engaging conversation.

TJ

 

[RKins]

Most of the time I am not offended by much and don't pay much attention to with what I see in public. I know people have rights to display anything they want, within reason.
Personally, one thing I am offended by is any variation of our American Flag besides the one I spent 10 years in the US Army defending. When I first saw the blue line black and white version it was like a punch to the gut. I asked the guy that had it what it meant and he told me it was about the police. That didn't take the sting out of what I was seeing. I can understand that in some way they feel proud of this flag. Why did they have to desecrate our flag to make themselves feel proud? Why couldn't they choose something else to provide the same feeling. I have relatives that are in law enforcement and they have their copy of the same blue line flag - I don't ridicule them, but I know that they didn't spend any time in our armed forces defending the real flag, therefore don't hold the same feelings I have.
Here is a excerpt from Wikipedia:
"The "thin blue line" has been controversial in both the US and the UK as some believe the symbol is emblematic of authoritarianism or a police state. ... The black and white US version of the flag with the thin blue line is seen by some as a desecration of the official US flag. "
As you see, I am not the only one that feels like this, so for you that were shocked that some people are upset, now you know why.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Rick, I have had some of the same thoughts...and, we are definitely a law enforcement family. I understand the concern regarding overlaying something on the American flag. It would be far better to have the blue line flag be more distinctive and representative of law enforcement without altering our national flag. And, the U.S. Flag Code (4 U.S. Code § 8.Respect for flag) specifically states:

"(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature."

Again, no disrespect is meant to law enforcement officers, active or retired, by this concern for altering our US flag for any purpose. As I said, we have both active and retired police officers in our immediate family, and we certainly respect their service.

TJ

 

[RKins]

Thanks TJ.
Edit: There seems to be a lot of members with law enforcement background and also military background here. Of course we don't want to stir up anything, how would a body of people change the design of the LEO flag?

 

[redbaron]

I am asking the following question for my personal knowledge. I have never served our country nor have I been a first responder, so this is a question without agenda...purely for education.


When does a change to the US flag stop being an alteration, and become a new work?

I know that Disney does not fly any US flag in its parks. They instead fly a flag that most people think is a us flag. They have altered the number of stripes and stars to make it a prop, and therefore not be accused of mishandling or disrespecting the US Flag.

So if that is acceptable (use of word if is intentional), then why is the alteration of colors any different?



2019 DSDP 4369 * Active Air * NHSO

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I don't know the answer to your question. For me, if it has 13 alternating red and white stripes, a blue field with 50 stars and looks like an American flag, it is the flag I served under for many years.

TJ

 

[MapNerd]

I certainly can understand where folks get offended with desecration of the US Flag and I can see how the blue line flag can be interpreted as a desecration. As a combat veteran, I certainly do not like seeing the US Flag flown upside down, burned, stomped on or mishandled in any other manner. On the few occasions that I had to fly a commercial flight, I recall multiple times being asked why we wear the flag backwards on our uniforms and the answer for those who might not know, is that the flag is backwards because it symbolizes the flag moving forward into battle against the wind. Thus, the flag flips horizontally and appears backwards while it is moving forwards.
I that to make the point that the best thing to do in my book, rather than get offended, is to understand the individual’s rationale for displaying whatever it is they are displaying. Now, no one ever got offended by a service member wearing a flag on their uniform, but it is quite common for people to not understand why it is being displayed the way it is.

The difference is that people are far more likely to get offended by an upside down US flag, or possibly an alteration of the same flag in an effort to create something derivative with a new meaning. For some strange reason though, we often jump to anger when we see those things. Why do we take the time to respectfully inquire and understand symbolisms that don’t offend us, but the ones that’s do we rarely take the time to understand and immediately go to anger or offense?

Take time to understand your neighbor is all I’m saying. What’s offensive to you more than likely has a very different meaning and perspective to them and I would wager that 9 times out of 10, such displays are not intended as an affront to anyone and their service or support of a cause, but something else entirely.

 

[VTPete]

As said before, thank you on all accounts FL-JOE. You did the right thing. I can’t imagine a country where we can’t show our support for a candidate or a leader etc.... but we’re getting dangerously close. If I saw somebody flying a flag celebrating something that offends me I would NEVER consider working to have that flag taken down unless of course it was inappropriate in other ways. Let everyone fly their MAGA, HILLARY, BERNIE, KERMIT THE FROG flags or whatever, as this is what our country is about.

I’m also thankful to have joined a forum where we can discuss this topic in a grown up fashion.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I’m also thankful to have joined a forum where we can discuss this topic in a grown up fashion.

Me too! Hearing the opinions of others, whether or not we agree with them, is healthy and can foster a better understanding among us all.

TJ

 

[FL-JOE]

Until about 2 years ago I had never even observed a blue line flag, let alone owned or displayed one. The first similar flag I became aware of was the red line flag, which is about the same thing except it is for firefighters.

During my 34 year LEO career I unfortunately attended more than one funeral for a brother/sister in blue. It is one thing to experience the loss of a friend 8,500 miles from home when you are 19 years old, and then quite another to have that happen in your community and stand behind his wife and 2 young sons at the funeral. Since I have experienced both I will not apologize for making the comparison.

You have little time to dwell on the loss because you are going right back to work and your main concern is convincing your wife and children that it won't happen to you. The only outward way you could honor their memory was to wear the black band over your badge for a week or two.

A couple years ago my home department lost 3 troopers within about 6 months. Even though I had been retired for several years it effected me. I decided to start displaying support for law enforcement however I could. I purchased my first blue line flags for my campsite flagpole and another small one for my motorcycle. I have blue LED lights under my coach that are turned on 365 nights a year. Last week we installed blue LED lights inside the windshield of the coach that are displayed at night.

My displaying of the blue line flag represents my support for law enforcement and a deep respect for this country.

 

[redbaron]

From the research I have done, the Blue line flag is NOT a US flag, and is a unique flag. Its purpose is clear and proper.

Posting an image overlayed on a US flag would be wrong, but altering a single stripe or color creates a new flag.



2019 DSDP 4369 * Active Air * NHSO