Question House batteries

[Kevin D Pem]

Sounds more like an insurance mandate. My guess is information about DIY was left out.

 

[Underboss]

For what it's worth...a friend was recently booted from NIRVC storage in Lewisville for his new Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. He was told he could only keep his coach in their storage facility if he purchased his batteries from NIRVC and they installed them. I'm guessing where you buy them affects flammability. Interestingly, the owner keeps (and charges) his Tesla in the same building.

They have a responsibility to the other folks storing vehicles and insurance requirements. I would imagine the "only if NIRVC installed them" is an add on and not actually what was stated.
As a side note, a friend spent over a million on a coach and the builder installed lithium, enough to run the ac's all night. There was a charging issue so he went back to the factory, they changed the settings. He drove home the next day, plugged in and it not only blew his house (sticks and bricks) panel, it blew the neighbors panel.
Yes, many folks who should not be messing with lithium, are. And even the pros are having issues.

 

[Richpatty]

There was a charging issue so he went back to the factory, they changed the settings. He drove home the next day, plugged in and it not only blew his house (sticks and bricks) panel, it blew the neighbors panel.
Yes, many folks who should not be messing with lithium, are. And even the pros are having issues.

That sounds like a bit much to me…. How could someone’s RV charger blow out their breaker panel AND their neighbors. I just can’t see how that could happen.

 

[Underboss]

That sounds like a bit much to me…. How could someone’s RV charger blow out their breaker panel AND their neighbors. I just can’t see how that could happen.

The neighbor was out of town. His panel and outside 50 amp plug is 20' from his neighbors panel. I cannot explain, all I can say is what it did. He has a 45' on a Cascadia with three a/c's. His lithium system is built to handle all three a/cs and refrigerator. Not a small system.
His house has a 400 amp service. I went over right after it happened. I have seen stranger things happen. Maybe FPL could explain it to you. But it appears that there was some programming issue that sent the power backwards toward the panel. Not a stretch to see how that could affect a nearby panel.
Point being, too many amateurs, including "professionals" messing with lithium. I would not want to damage another rigs because I allowed a poorly installed lithium system to be stored next to their rig.
Every week or so you see horror stories about lithium caused fires due to one source or another. Go on a golf cart forum and read about how many did the conversion and ended up with a fire. And gc installations are very simple.

 

[Richpatty]

This is not a lithium issue. It is an electrical one. Lithium are DC…usually 12v. The house is 120v AC. The only way that power could get back to the house (backwards?) is through the inverter/charger…and even then, I don’t see how it could happen unless something is wired REALLY odd. Again, if you stack enough lead acid batteries, you can create the same amount of amperage and power.

This is an electrical issue…. I really hate to see folks blame the type of batteries for issues such as these.

 

[Richpatty]

The more I think about this, I would think this would have more to do with the power company than the RV…. It would explain why both homes were effected.

Especially since you do not mention anything that happened to the RV.

 

[Underboss]

This is not a lithium issue. It is an electrical one. Lithium are DC…usually 12v. The house is 120v AC. The only way that power could get back to the house (backwards?) is through the inverter/charger…and even then, I don’t see how it could happen unless something is wired REALLY odd. Again, if you stack enough lead acid batteries, you can create the same amount of amperage and power.

This is an electrical issue…. I really hate to see folks blame the type of batteries for issues such as these.

So you may have overlooked that it was a programming issue. After it happened, he was on the phone with the rv manufacturer and the company that made the system. They had him connect an ethernet cable directly to the system and they had to reprogram the system. They claimed that when they reprogrammed it on his factory visit, they made an error in the settings. Apparently they understood the issue which goes to my point that the average person does not, as witnessed by the replies.
Of course if you stack 40 lead acid batteries you could match his lithium system but thats not the case here. In the end it was the way the LITHIUM system was programmed that caused the issue. Yes, lithium are dc but the system is designed to run 3 alternating current, air conditioners and a fridge so we are not talking a small amount of power.
Earlier you said it could never blow the neighbors breaker but it did as I explained the backfeeding was the cause.
BTW it did nothing to the rv as it backfed to the house, once the neighbors 150 amp panel blew, then his panel blew the system stopped sending power backwards. Also, fyi, if you send power out of your house (solar photovoltaic) without the proper system, it can send power back to the pole. Thats why if you have house solar and the power company is working on the lines due to an outage they make you shut your system down.

 

[Richpatty]

Understood….but this is not a lithium battery issue. It was (as you describe) a configuration issue.

 

[Underboss]

Understood….but this is not a lithium battery issue. It was (as you describe) a configuration issue.

Technically it is a lithium system issue. It goes back to the op's post of why they do not want to store some rvs with lithium systems.
Here is what I originally posted, I never said it was lithium batteries alone. I believe every post I made referred to lithium system.

""""As a side note, a friend spent over a million on a coach and the builder installed lithium, enough to run the ac's all night. There was a charging issue so he went back to the factory, they changed the settings. He drove home the next day, plugged in and it not only blew his house (sticks and bricks) panel, it blew the neighbors panel.
Yes, many folks who should not be messing with lithium, are. And even the pros are having issues""""

 

[Neal]

I don't get how anything beyond the breaker would "blow" aka trip if the electrical system was installed and designed correctly and to code. If something beyond that happened, then the person has other issues IMHO.

I tripped my GFI once at my house for trying to pull too many amps when I forgot to set my charger config for the 15A outlet. No big deal, lesson learned. Same would apply to anything else misconfigured such as if they are trying to charge at a rate of 300 amps to Lithium, which they can take, the outlet/breaker should trip.

 

[Richpatty]

I don't get how anything beyond the breaker would "blow" aka trip if the electrical system was installed and designed correctly and to code. If something beyond that happened, then the person has other issues IMHO.

I tripped my GFI once at my house for trying to pull too many amps when I forgot to set my charger config for the 15A outlet. No big deal, lesson learned. Same would apply to anything else misconfigured such as if they are trying to charge at a rate of 300 amps to Lithium, which they can take, the outlet/breaker should trip.

I completely agree. And even if, somehow, the power fed back into the system, it would not be any more than 120v AC. Why would it blow anything? I remain incredulous, not because I am a proponent of Lithium, but because the technical feasibility of something like this happening seems really low. I encourage any electrical engineer to voice an opinion here to let us know the likelihood of an RV charger/Inverter effecting two homes in a neighborhood.

 

[Underboss]

"I completely agree. And even if, somehow, the power fed back into the system, it would not be any more than 120v AC. Why would it blow anything? I remain incredulous, not because I am a proponent of Lithium, but because the technical feasibility of something like this happening seems really low. I encourage any electrical engineer to voice an opinion here to let us know the likelihood of an RV charger/Inverter effecting two homes in a neighborhood"
So you understood in your previous post but just jumped back on because of another response about blowing a 15 amp GFI?
But, hey you love lithium.....

"I don't get how anything beyond the breaker would "blow" aka trip if the electrical system was installed and designed correctly and to code. If something beyond that happened, then the person has other issues IMHO.

I tripped my GFI once at my house for trying to pull too many amps when I forgot to set my charger config for the 15A outlet. No big deal, lesson learned. Same would apply to anything else misconfigured such as if they are trying to charge at a rate of 300 amps to Lithium, which they can take, the outlet/breaker should trip"

LMAO you guys electricians? Then you would understand. I think it is because you are proponents of lithium and not proponents of understanding how electric works and the possibility of a surge. You are talking about a 15 amp gfi.
I officially give up. I have posted explanations of what happened and how, but, like some folks on rising prices, you guys are in denial.
As I said in my first post, I do not blame NIRVC about storing, there are too any amateurs installing these systems and they do not want that liability. Just like the local repair shop that had a "owner converted to lithium coach" come in for a non related repair. The coach was on fire by the am and was not touched yet by the repair shop, still parked where the owner left it.
I can hear it now......oh that was not a lithium problem, even though it started in the "lithium" bay.....

I was going to get more technical but it woud be a waste of typing and I am out of coffee.

You guys forget the term, $hit happens?

 

[Richpatty]

So I think you are missing the point. This forum is to share experiences so others may learn and avoid others misfortune. With that in mind, I would really like to know what happened with your neighbor so I can avoid the same issue. But I have not seen any details on what caused the problem outside that he had lithium batteries and the installer reconfigured the system.

I would like to know what was changed? How did this happen? What happened to the rig itself? What did they fix on the rig after the incident?

At this point we don’t know any of this, so how are we supposed to take away any lessons learned? Besides just ripping out our lithium batteries, which is not an option.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

So you may have overlooked that it was a programming issue. After it happened, he was on the phone with the rv manufacturer and the company that made the system. They had him connect an ethernet cable directly to the system and they had to reprogram the system. They claimed that when they reprogrammed it on his factory visit, they made an error in the settings. Apparently they understood the issue which goes to my point that the average person does not, as witnessed by the replies.
Of course if you stack 40 lead acid batteries you could match his lithium system but thats not the case here. In the end it was the way the LITHIUM system was programmed that caused the issue. Yes, lithium are dc but the system is designed to run 3 alternating current, air conditioners and a fridge so we are not talking a small amount of power.
Earlier you said it could never blow the neighbors breaker but it did as I explained the backfeeding was the cause.
BTW it did nothing to the rv as it backfed to the house, once the neighbors 150 amp panel blew, then his panel blew the system stopped sending power backwards. Also, fyi, if you send power out of your house (solar photovoltaic) without the proper system, it can send power back to the pole. Thats why if you have house solar and the power company is working on the lines due to an outage they make you shut your system down.

Obviously someone has no idea what happened, or what the weaker system is.

This is fear porn plain and simple.

 

[AbdRahim]

What brand lithium did you end up with?

Victron 330 Ah, each.