2024 Newmar New Aire

[turbopilot]

Coming from a prior Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Class C I was very paranoid about weight. No 4 corner weight yet, but I was quite happy to see at a CAT Scales weigh in just after topping off fuel with full fuel and full fresh water, weight on the tow hitch, both driver and passenger in place, and a fully loaded rig (inside and in the basement) I had plenty of room to spare on both front and rear axles. Yay!

I am on the Spartan Chasis. Will get 4 corner weight at next RV show to see what I should move around underneath if I need better balance.

Best,
-Mark

That is good news. So that heavy engine is worth more than just more torque.

 

[Neal]

Factor in Lithium batteries vs. AGM's in forward weight as well.

 

[turbopilot]

Factor in Lithium batteries vs. AGM's in forward weight as wel

Yes, 364 lbs removed from the area behind the left front tire. What surprise me more was the fact the Freightliner chassis weighs more the Spartan. With all hype about a heavier chassis with the Spartan I thought it would have been the other way around.

 

[Rd1]

the Freightliner chassis weighs more the Spartan. With all hype about a heavier chassis with the Spartan I thought it would have been the other way around.

The 'reason' likely is due to newmar modifying the chassis rails. The original beams are removed and newmar installs their own, so they can lower the body within the frame rails. Newmar is likely adding alot more support to stabalize the freightliner version, hence the extra weight. But, the best proof is, when at newmar, one should go and visit the chassis lot. It used to be close to the old newmar camp ground (x the street). Or sometimes sun or early monday you can see the flat bed truck that brings chassis from freightliner and spartan to newmar is parked near the old campground.

IF you were to compare spartan chassis with like freightliner chassis, there is no comparison! The freightliner is the very cheaper version. NOw, if someone likes the way their freightliner handles, fair enough. But you have to see the 2 side by side to appreciate the differences.

If you go to any RV show, freightliner will likely not bring the same comparable chassis as spartan has on display. They will have other models, but not a comparable one. You do not need to be an ME, to appreciate the differences. Newmar factory may be about the only place you'll have a chance to compare the 2 like chassis from spartan and freightiner. btw, this is not a plug for spartan. just simple observation.

 

[turbopilot]

IF you were to compare spartan chassis with like freightliner chassis, there is no comparison! The freightliner is the very cheaper version. NOw, if someone likes the way their freightliner handles, fair enough. But you have to see the 2 side by side to appreciate the differences.

This is an area I know nothing about. I had a 2018 NA 3343 on a FreightLiner chassis and while I had a lot of problems with that coach, ride quality or frame issues were never an issue for me. It rode and handled great, mostly because it was so relatively small and nimble compared to a typical Class A. So I have no frame of reference about how a "cheaper version" of a chassis might impact the ownership experience. It just surprised me to see the FrieghtLiner version weigh in 100 lbs more than Spartan when so much of the hype around Spartan is the larger gauge steel used in the rails.

One other thought. I think it is possible these differences between Freightliner and Spartan chassis my be more appreciated in the long wheelbase Class A's. The New Aire is a "short bus" chassis without a very long run of chassis rails. The older 3343 NA was only a 206" wheelbase while the 3543 is only 20" longer at 226" for the wheelbase. So logically chassis strength is going to be much more important with 10' longer rails and the weight of the tag axle system going into the mix.

 

[turbopilot]

Other "Banned for Life" iRV2 refugees may remember Mike Mas on that forum. He was one of the very early buyers of a New Aire in 2017 who brought lots of new technology ideas to the NA and posted regularly on iRV2 for a while. As I recall he got crosswise with the moderators on iRV2 and simply left the forum. Here is his web site.

A year ago Lithionics posted a video by Mike that is detailed and wide ranging. He is pushing for high voltages in RV's using these lithium based systems. I think he is on the right tract. I have Ford F-150 hybrid. It is running with two DC electrical systems: 12 volt and 280 volt. The 280 volt system runs the air conditioning and traction motor. Mike is arguing we need to step up to a 51 volt system for RV's. He makes some good points..

Here is the Lithionics YouTube Video.

 

[Neal]

Invite him over...

 

[Rd1]

A year ago Lithionics posted a video by Mike that is detailed and wide ranging. He is pushing for high voltages in RV's using these lithium based systems.

Nice.. this seems to be the next natural progression with RV power systems. Master Tech in Indiana does this too. Some crazy (450v??) hi voltage to run the entire coach, that is every thing (wash/dryer, etc) of the solar/Li Batts. The shore power. when in use, is to charge the Li Batts. They also add a Hi capacity alternator, replace some of the wires and even add a fire supression system. This is what the factory should already be doing.. master tech are actually former and/or existing newmar employees.

 

[turbopilot]

Has anybody successfully gotten a quote for adding the 3rd lithionics "plug-in-play" expansion battery to their system? I bought my 2023 in May and am still trying to get a quote from the dealer. My assumption is any quote would include the 3rd battery, the 3 battery combiner from lithioncs (adding yet another Y cable to combine them would cause battery cable runs that are not the same length, which isn't good), updating the Silverleaf to know the new total amp hours, and then labor.

Eager to hear of anybody who has either gotten the quote or the work done (by dealer, Newmar, or yourself). With my old rig, in which I installed Battle Borns, I'd just do the work myself...

Thanks,
-Mark

Success! I talked to T. J. at OffTheGridRV in Quartzite, AZ. They are an authorized Lithionics dealer. TJ has added the 3rd Lithionics battery to 3 "Luxury" Newmar coaches. Last one being a new Mountain Aire. T.J.'s current price is around $6,900 for the full install versus $10,000 as a factory option. The 3 port parallel combiner box is more expensive than I thought at $1,300 and is included in that price. Battery alone is $4,600. Apparently there are no SilverLeaf changes needed to support a 3rd battery. All configuration of the Lithionics BMS is done through the Bluetooth Lithionics app. The Lithionics BMS then echos information to SilverLeaf via the RV-Can network. With the parts, installation is fast and easy according to TJ. TJ needs about a month lead time for the some parts.

Everything here applies to any new "Luxury" Newmar model with Lithionics batteries. Here is the complete installation in the Mountain Aire.

 

[Neal]

What amp hours is one of those batteries? I know I'm headed for LifePO4's soon in my coach and we all want as many amp hours as we can stuff in there but what is really needed when it comes to Li? From what I gather since we can use 100% of the amp hours vs. 50% in FLA/AGM we should only need half the amp hours as we previously were accommodated to.

I used to watch this guys YouTube videos and this is his forum, I'll need to ramp back up the knowledge info before I plunge into LifePO4's as I may build my own.

DIY Solar Power Forum

Love building DIY solar electric projects? Come hang out :D

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[turbopilot]

What amp hours is one of those batteries? I know I'm headed for LifePO4's soon in my coach and we all want as many amp hours as we can stuff in there but what is really needed when it comes to Li? From what I gather since we can use 100% of the amp hours vs. 50% in FLA/AGM we should only need half the amp hours as we previously were accommodated to.

I used to watch this guys YouTube videos and this is his forum, I'll need to ramp back up the knowledge info before I plunge into LifePO4's as I may build my own.

DIY Solar Power Forum

Love building DIY solar electric projects? Come hang out :D

diysolarforum.com

320 ah. 960 ah total with three batteries. Common wisdom is not to take Li batteries below 10% SOC. As I understand you can set up SOC shutdown percent in the Lithionics App to shut down the batteries if they get too low automatically for protection.

 

[turbopilot]

I know I'm headed for LifePO4's soon in my coach and we all want as many amp hours as we can stuff in there but what is really needed when it comes to Li?

If you are headed to a replacement of the flooded/AGM lead acid batteries I would jump to a 48 volt system. I think the days of 12 volt battery systems are limited for Class A coaches. I would do 48 volt right now for the 2024 NA but it would mean getting rid of the new equipment and a bunch of rewiring.

 

[Neal]

I'd have to get smart on what ramifications that would entail. A drop in replacement is typically what drives the decision I believe. I've seen some YouTube videos on this, been a while though.

 

[turbopilot]

I'd have to get smart on what ramifications that would entail. A drop in replacement is typically what drives the decision I believe. I've seen some YouTube videos on this, been a while though.

The driver is that it efficiently allows you to power the air conditioning units from the lithium batteries for a long time.

 

[MarkMaxPayne]

320 ah. 960 ah total with three batteries. Common wisdom is not to take Li batteries below 10% SOC. As I understand you can set up SOC shutdown percent in the Lithionics App to shut down the batteries if they get too low automatically for protection.

View attachment 20759

Other batteries, like Battle Borns as an example, lie about their SOC so when their internal BMS shuts them down at the reported 0% they really have that additional 10%+ in reserve (i.e. its really a 110AH+ battery vs the 100AH they claim). That is to say their 100Ah rated batteries really are under rated for what they actual are/deliver. In the case of the Lithionics, which doesn't under report the batteries true storage, the BMS stops before the reported 0% mark as 0 for them truly means 0 vs holding some back in reserve. Nothing wrong with either approach other than one reports the true usable AH knowing it really has more in reserve when it hits 0% while the other reports true total AH and stops you early while telling you how much is left in reserve. Which approach is best? May be a religious discussion.

In response to another post I wouldn't size Lithium upgrades based on "I could only use up to 50% before." That extra 30-50% available (depending on battery rating and BMS cutoffs) is there for the taking. And there is a ton of peace of mind not worrying about running them too low. As Tim Allen would say "More power!!!" That said, if budget is an issue, sizing to 50% of previous is a strategy...

Best,
-Mark