Deploying jacks w/out dumping air bags (not related to slide operation)

[J&JD]

Where did you stop for the night in Lincoln?

We are at Camp-A-Way in Lincoln. Thanks for the Freightliner info but we seem to be ok. Was able to get level without deploying anything so hopefully the slide will come in just fine. They look good so far.
Thanks again for checking in.

 

[Rich W.]

We are at Camp-A-Way in Lincoln. Thanks for the Freightliner info but we seem to be ok. Was able to get level without deploying anything so hopefully the slide will come in just fine. They look good so far.
Thanks again for checking in.

I thought so - we stayed there too. Nice mature park nestled in the SW corner of a clover leaf, but for all that it was peaceful and pleasant.

 

[newmarokie]

For what it is worth, we have lifted hundreds of axles off of the ground by overextending the bags. I don't recall us ever popping a bag or busting a shock. It is not something I would think you would want to do on a regular basis, but one offs should not be a problem. Based on Ard's conversation and photos it is obviously a possibility. We never did it other than to make necessary repairs to another part of the system. The front end on the other hand is completely new to me. I don't know what the risk would be.

 

[sheridany]

What was the outcome @J&JD?

 

[J&JD]

What was the outcome @J&JD?

A couple of outcomes I guess:
HWH found several problems with our HWH AA system, one of them they admitted was a wrong part that they had sent to me several months ago to fix my system. They spent several hours rebuilding,testing and replacing parts of the system for an amazingly low price of $480 total. If it had been done at someplace like a Freightliner dealer the labor alone would have been $1000+. Good news is that the system seems to be performing as advertised.
As for the OP, I guess I’ll buy the argument to not deploy the jacks without dumping the air bags. But I am not at all convinced that there is a problem using the jacks to raise the coach small amounts without dumping air!

 

[RKins]

Especially if you just deploy the jacks just enough so that when you walk around inside the coach, it doesn't "wiggle". I would guess with AA that is not a problem?

 

[Oregon Camper]

I’m headed to HWH to have an inoperative Active Air repaired. This morning I called HWH to get help with the system so I could at least make it to their facility. Because I was having problems with the AA system not keeping the air bags inflated, when parked I wanted to deploy the jacks without deflating the air bags as I have done numerous times in the past. The HWH tech was adamant that I must not deploy jacks without deflating the bags. He said I could very likely “pop a bag”. Is this actually possible? I’ve never heard this before and am not sure I believe it. Comments from the all knowing members please.

Having hundreds of thousands of miles in air suspended class 8 trucks, and fleets with multiple trucks with air suspension, I have NEVER experienced or heard of an airbag failure from over extention. Our application required dumping chip trailers on a hydraulic lift. It picks up the trailer and tips it straight up so the load slides out the back. When the trailer cleared the truck the suspension would jump straight up to the end of the shock. Multiple times per day. Again, not one failure. So the painfully slow lift of RV Jacks isn't going to cause airbag failure. A shock? Maybe if it was defective. The only bag failure I've experienced was a puncture caused by external force. Keep in mind some of these trucks had millions of miles on them.

 

[J&JD]

Still trying to work the jacks/airbag information to a logical conclusion.
When a shop changes a tire, they place a jack under a solid frame member and jack the coach up. Never have I seen them dump the bags first. Isn’t this exactly the same as using the coach’s onboard jacks to raise the coach? What am I missing here??

 

[Oregon Camper]

Still trying to work the jacks/airbag information to a logical conclusion.
When a shop changes a tire, they place a jack under a solid frame member and jack the coach up. Never have I seen them dump the bags first. Isn’t this exactly the same as using the coach’s onboard jacks to raise the coach? What am I missing here??

All the tires I've changed, I always put the jack under the axle, never have I jacked one up from the frame. Especially a loaded rig.

 

[dadmech]

That last sentence kinda narrows the field a bit. I’m still pondering this…..

Thanks so much! I'd hate to see someone just yry to help...

 

[J&JD]

All the tires I've changed, I always put the jack under the axle, never have I jacked one up from the frame. Especially a loaded rig.

The Dutch Star has independent front suspension and the front cannot be lifted except from under a frame point.

I have had the unfortunate experience of being towed long distances twice. Both times, luckily, by extremely experienced tow people who had towed literally hundreds of coaches like mine. The front of the coach was lifted way off the ground by lifting under the frame and then the wheels were set back down on the truck lift and secured. Neither time were the air bags dumped prior to lifting. As I mentioned, these guys had towed hundreds & hundreds of coaches like mine over the years. Never seemed to worry about the air bags being dumped beforehand.

 

[Oregon Camper]

The Dutch Star has independent front suspension and the front cannot be lifted except from under a frame point.

My Tiffin Phaeton also has independent front suspension. I place the jack directly under the ball joint at the end of the A arm under the spindle. The jack is lifting the ONE wheel rather than the entire corner of the coach. I DO put the front leveling jacks down solid in case the jack fails.

 

[J&JD]

My Tiffin Phaeton also has independent front suspension. I place the jack directly under the ball joint at the end of the A arm under the spindle. The jack is lifting the ONE wheel rather than the entire corner of the coach. I DO put the front leveling jacks down solid in case the jack fails.

There is a warning on both sides of my front suspension saying not to lift from those areas.

 

[Oregon Camper]

There is a warning on both sides of my front suspension saying not to lift from those areas.

They may do that to keep someone from improperly placing a jack on the A-frame, that would destroy it. But lifting from the ball joint location is no different than the Coach sitting on the road.
I'm not trying to sharp shoot your post, just pointing out what works. When I got steering tires last time I put 2 of my 3" pads under the front Leveling jacks and lifted it for them they were like LOL

 

[J&JD]

When I got steering tires last time I put 2 of my 3" pads under the front Leveling jacks and lifted it for them they were like LOL

And did you dump the air first? That’s what the OP is all about.

 

[Oregon Camper]

And did you dump the air first? That’s what the OP is all about.

Nope end of the shocks is end of the shocks.

 

[J&JD]

Ok, I just went through every post on this thread and there is not one post on a “popped” air bag. There are several post where air bags were abused with no problem. My unscientific assumption is that you can lower the jacks without dumping the air bags to stabilize the coach, just don’t go crazy and overextend the jacks. That’s my take but don’t take what I do as a best scenario.

 

[Jetpilot]

I did have all my air system checked for leaks at Freightliner this year when I had my annual service and no air bags were leaking. I believe most Jack auto level systems dump bags first but I’m not sure the main reason for that is to protect the bags but get the coach body lower to the ground. Manually dropping jacks can be done with bags at any fill. So, back to my main question, does it damage the bags if you deploy the jacks without dumping air?

When you Auto Extend, the bags dump air automatically

 

[Wemustrv]

I’m headed to HWH to have an inoperative Active Air repaired. This morning I called HWH to get help with the system so I could at least make it to their facility. Because I was having problems with the AA system not keeping the air bags inflated, when parked I wanted to deploy the jacks without deflating the air bags as I have done numerous times in the past. The HWH tech was adamant that I must not deploy jacks without deflating the bags. He said I could very likely “pop a bag”. Is this actually possible? I’ve never heard this before and am not sure I believe it. Comments from the all knowing members please.

My Encore AA system auto dumps my airbags prior to leveling. When I pull into our building I manually dump so the satellite dome clears.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

My Encore AA system auto dumps my airbags prior to leveling. When I pull into our building I manually dump so the satellite dome clears.

Just because this thread was revived, here is my take!

The advice is more of a preventative measure!

Consider for a moment that when the bags are over extended, you put a pulling pressure on a plug. Adding air pressure to the back side increases the outward push on the plug, helping to remove the plug!!!

You think that makes sense?

I would say keep the suspension within limits and things should stay together! If you don't know the limit, don't discount the advice!!!