Deploying jacks w/out dumping air bags (not related to slide operation)

[ARD]

you're in a contingency situation, not asking about normal ops?

In my opinion, it’s still too risky. After seeing the potential consequences of overextending, I would travel, search for a site as flat as possible, remain aired up, and not use the jacks.

 

[J&JD]

My problem here is that AA has gone nuts. It will not get all bags to travel mode and I cannot air level. In order to move the coach at all I have to shut the entire system down and manually inflate all the bags to appropriate travel pressure. I can dump the bags and extend the jacks to level the coach when parked. But if I dump all the bags it takes a long time to manually refill them to get to travel height. To compound the problem it’s impossible to get the coach in the correct posture to extend the slides! So…this is why I asked the original question about deploying the jacks without dumping the air bags.
Good news is we are 3/4ths of the 2000 mile trip to HWH down. Hopefully we can make our Monday appointment

 

[Neal]

Thanks for the explanation, I was wondering what was going on. My biggest concern about a niche system like this is service and hoping HWH can continue to support us in the years ahead. I hate to think of what if's.

Safe travels the remainder of the journey and look forward to hearing what they find.

 

[ARD]

I feel your pain. I can't air level as I have a slow leak on irv2 line from secondary air tank most probably due to Newmar's sloppy work - welding splatter when putting house on chassis. Safe travels friends. Hope they get you all fixed up.

 

[J&JD]

Hope they get you all fixed up.

And you too Miss Renee!

 

[Rich W.]

My problem here is that AA has gone nuts. It will not get all bags to travel mode and I cannot air level. In order to move the coach at all I have to shut the entire system down and manually inflate all the bags to appropriate travel pressure. I can dump the bags and extend the jacks to level the coach when parked. But if I dump all the bags it takes a long time to manually refill them to get to travel height. To compound the problem it’s impossible to get the coach in the correct posture to extend the slides! So…this is why I asked the original question about deploying the jacks without dumping the air bags.
Good news is we are 3/4ths of the 2000 mile trip to HWH down. Hopefully we can make our Monday appointment

Ok I’ll weigh on here with my theory, right or wrong. I’ve been reluctant to throw in my .02 worth because I really don’t know, but what occurred to me when you first posed the question a couple days ago is that the bags can extend further when empty than when full (because they are fatter and thus shorter when full) so lifting the coach enough to hang the suspension to the stops with the bags full could rip them from their mounts if they can not fully extend to that distance.

This is just based on physics/geometry and not any experience as I’ve never tried it (and don’t plan to). But I do have a lot of experience with air bags of all shapes and sizes (including bags big enough to right a semi-truck on its side) and air bags shrink in one direction when they expand in another. So empty bags can, in theory, extend further than full ones.

So for the trip to HWH I would just find places to park that are close enough to level and live with it. I had one jack going quite wonky (lifting the left rear corner of the coach far more than the rest) and as soon as I realized I had a problem, I stopped leveling until I could get to HWH (a 2,000 mile jaunt for us as well), where they replaced some valve for around a hundred bucks and solved the problem. Twisting the frame could have been far more costly, as would ripping out your air bags. At the very least I’d consult Freightliner. Maybe ask Don at the Sacramento Truck RV shop.

 

[Neal]

Let me divert the subject a little bit for those of us with HWH Active Air. What would you try to do to fix the issue assuming it's an AA issue? Things I'm thinking of:

1. Remove power from AA to force the board to reboot
2. Remove and replace all connectors going to the control board, making sure they are seated properly
3. Check the wires at the front aux pump, several of us have had the ground wire disconnected, I think in my case when I returned to HWH for an issue the ground wire was never actually connected
4. I think @redbaron had to replace a solenoid long ago with one of his coaches that had me asking HWH at my install what spare parts should I carry with me. In the end they said none but I knew @redbaron had to replace a solenoid I think it was so I really wanted one as a spare.
5. Beyond that all I can think of is listen or check for leaks in the air lines
6. Make sure the air tanks are airing up and holding levels, review the pressure readings on the HWH control panel inside.
7. I'm not sure if having HWH send a new control board to us would be an option if we could swap it out for troubleshooting? Maybe the board is bad?

 

[Roadglide117]

If the bag is over extended it is very possible to blow a bag, especially older unit where bag is old.

 

[redbaron]

@Neal carrying the solenoid is still something I do. It is a major failure part, and required for active Air operations while driving.

For coaches without active air the solenoid only activates when using the pump, so less prone to failure.

@J&JD the advice to dump air should be followed. The mount points for the jack are extended by the airbag. You will either twist frame, hyper extend jacks, or snap a shock.

The most likely scenario is hyper extending jacks which will then cause one of the other failures as well as bend a jack.

To fill the airbags quickly, use the air in the generator bay to fill all 4 bags at once. This is right below the air supply and is used to fill the air when being towed. Your AA should be already disabled by pulling the fuse so the tanks and bags should inflate . If you find them leaking down, you need to pull the fuse.

In the completely offline state, your air will function just like it did before ACtive air installation.

The only reason to use the individual bag inflate is to set the ride profile to the bags independently.

This is based on how my 2013 and 2019 were plumbed. I have heard that some installations removed the original fill points, and that may be a spartan thing. If that’s the case then you will have to fill each one individually.

May be easier to keep coach on travel air and full wall slide in. Other slides are more forgiving on extending but as always “mind the gap “

 

[J&JD]

@Neal and @redbaron , thanks for all your comments and help. We have made it to Lincoln Nebraska from the Bay Area (1700 miles) so far managing this crazy system. The last leg to HWH hopefully will be finished tomorrow with a Monday morning appointment there. I will post a full report when we get this darn thing diagnosed.
Thanks again!

 

[Neal]

@redbaron - what solenoid should I be carrying a spare of and where do I get it.

@J&JD - glad you missed the storms and giant tornado ahead of you.

 

[J&JD]

@J&JD - glad you missed the storms and giant tornado ahead of you.

As are we! So far so good.

 

[redbaron]

@redbaron - what solenoid should I be carrying a spare of and where do I get it.

@J&JD - glad you missed the storms and giant tornado ahead of you.

What is needed is a 250A continuous duty solenoid. Cole hersee sells a 200a for $75 on Amazon. I carry that and use it as an emergency. As long as you keep your RPMs high while extending slide the amp will be low due to higher
Line voltage.

There are a ton of 300amp solenoids listed on Amazon for under $20 and I would add one to the pile along with the Cole Hersee. Should cover any needs and it’s a small part to store.

 

[Neal]

If/when you have time, can you provide a link or part number, there are a gazillion on Amazon. And where is this critical part located in the coach and what is its function so I can understand better, and it's relation to Active Air.

 

[J&JD]

As long as you keep your RPMs high while extending slide the amp will be low due to higher

Interestingly, my FWS will not operate with the engine running. That’s one of the things I’m going to discuss with HWH.
I will also discuss the solenoid with them.

 

[Neal]

We have made it to Lincoln Nebraska from the Bay Area (1700 miles) so far managing this crazy system.

Tornado pics on Facebook now, this is someone posting the tornado that was just north of Lincoln.

 

[redbaron]

If/when you have time, can you provide a link or part number, there are a gazillion on Amazon. And where is this critical part located in the coach and what is its function so I can understand better, and it's relation to Active Air.

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

 

[redbaron]

Interestingly, my FWS will not operate with the engine running. That’s one of the things I’m going to discuss with HWH.
I will also discuss the solenoid with them.

There is a lockout that was moved in 2019 to the parking brake. Prior years it was ignition based.

 

[J&JD]

Tornado pics on Facebook now, this is someone posting the tornado that was just north of Lincoln.

View attachment 23678

Ok, @Neal, we realize now that you are finally getting back at us for harassing you about your Ventana/snow/snow Sox adventure. Good call!

 

[Rich W.]

@Neal and @redbaron , thanks for all your comments and help. We have made it to Lincoln Nebraska from the Bay Area (1700 miles) so far managing this crazy system. The last leg to HWH hopefully will be finished tomorrow with a Monday morning appointment there. I will post a full report when we get this darn thing diagnosed.
Thanks again!

Just FYI Truck Center in Lincoln on Arbor Rd at 1-80 (exit 405) is an excellent honest Freightliner shop and they are open and working 24/7. They worked on mine overnight on a Friday night and I was back on the road on Saturday. Hopefully you wont need them for anything but since you mentioned Lincoln I thought I’d let you know. Where did you stop for the night in Lincoln?