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[Neal]

How many have had a failure of this same watchdog device? I am wondering...if this was not an external electrical issue but simply a failure of this device that caused issues within your coach as a result? I don't know if that can be proven and if so if Hughes would cover damages as a result? I know back in the day of computer surge protection APC for example offered coverage if their product failed to protect you. My hunch is the watchdog is the failure item and cause for damage.

 

[Neal]

I don't know if anything changed in newer model year Newmar's but one thing I did on my '17 Ventana was put a cutoff switch to kill the connection between the batteries and inverter in the event of fire, etc. I don't know if there is a way to complete cutoff 12V (house battery) supply in your coach @Neemer to force a complete reset. In my SES overhaul of my batteries to LiFePO4 last November they also install a cutoff switch. I would be inclined someway to disconnect your battery bank (positive going to Inverter) and/or any other connections to get a complete 12V reset of the coach.

 

[Neemer]

I had a pretty good conversation with Hughes Autoformer yesterday. I won’t replay it here, but the thing that has people stumped is how and why 12v was affected.

Obviously, there was a short somewhere in the watchdog. My son is troubleshooting it now attempting to locate the area that shorted.

 

[Neal]

Keep in mind while we think of an inverter as just an inverter, it's actually an INVERTER/CHARGER in our coaches. So the 50A does make its way via the inverter/charger to the house batteries to charge them as does the GEN and Alternator. I don't know the intricacies and current flow and protections inline, for example, could a faulty inverter/charger be a suspect in the cause? Or some other component? Could the Watchdog send a short down the line through the inverter into the 12V system? I don't know. Maybe @Chuggs if he gets this alert could chime in on possibilities.

 

[Chuggs]

Unless his house has more than one catastrophic fuse…or the house disconnect has fried…I’m unaware of a way a portion of the house is dc powered and another part is not. It’s easy to trace with a voltmeter… if you know the wiring route. I can only speak of my Ventana…but the DC power flows…

Battery >> catastrophic fuse in battery compartment >> (behind cord reel) meets one side of the house disconnect latching relay (cascade of wires piggybacking on same terminal going to a couple of self-resetting dc breakers and a fuse panel for “continuous battery power” branch circuits. The other side of the house disconnect latching relay is only hot when the use/store switch has latched the relay in the connected position. If that side is hot…it has a cascade of wires on that terminal which go to a handful of self resetting breakers and also another separate fuse block which is designated as disconnect battery powered…as these are what loose power when the salesman switch is in the store latched position. I keep saying latched because this relay, unlike others…doesn’t need power to a coil to hold it in a particular position. It only needs a momentary flash of power to energize a coil to polarize it…the polarization causes it to move open or closed..,but once the power has stopped..lathe relay stays mechanically latched in that position. Your disconnect battery powered fuse block has two rather large fuses…and these provide power to the distribution fuse block in the half bath cabinet…and those include a lot of things. Reading the legend decal in there is a good read. The back of the plastic cover behind the cord reel should also have a legend of fuses and breakers…although sometimes they get in a hurry and don’t install them when building the coach.

Silverleaf??? Sorry, I have the black Carlisle switches thru out my coach good for 250,000 cycles… yeah, not a fancy as Taptic switches…but I’m good with that. Less likelihood of failure, quite honestly.

Anything in your dc system should be sharing a chassis ground…so holding the ground lead to a chassis member, while probing with the multimeter positive lead in DC Volts…should let you quickly follow the pathway and find the issue.

Your inventory of things working vs things failed is a fantastic way to troubleshoot where the issue is..lubricant will require you to reference those fuse legends to properly identify where the link is inoperative.

 

[Neal]

Thanks @Chuggs but the main question I believe is how can a short on the path in to the ATS affect the 12V system? It sounds like @Neemer had a short from the pedestal in we’ll say and now has 12V anomalies.

 

[Chuggs]

I do think that a surge in the AC side of the house could cause a surge on the dc side thru the charge circuitry. This would be a non-event for most dc related resources. However, microprocessor controlled items are very susceptible to these surges. Even dc circuits with relay coils…when power gets interrupted, the coil field collapses and sends a spike voltage down the line. It’s a good procedure to have diodes in the circuit to short out the collapsing field spike…but not always included. Again, normally doesn’t hurt anything…but it can scramble the microprocessors wired to the same source. Finding these circuits…and completely turning them off…waiting five minutes or so to let capacitors discharge…coil fields collapse…. Then, hopefully, when the circuit is reenergized..,the microprocessor will initiate its process anew from step one…and populate memory fields with useable information. This should work, most of the time. If not…I think that particular control device will have to be replaced.

 

[Neal]

Thanks @Chuggs - as I mentioned I think a complete 12V removal would be what I would do. But it seems in coaches typically out of Newmar the only way to do this is disconnect the inverter from the battery?

 

[Chuggs]

I’m used to the ME-RC or ME-ARC controls. If the inverter charger control allows you to turn the charger OFF…the engine isn’t running (no alternator supply) …then removing the house catastrophic fuse will likely cut out the entire DC system. Minimize the load when doing this to prevent a lot of arcing. Only the chassis components will remain powered. With the version of MS2812 Inverter I have…if you were in “pass thru mode”… unless AC power is interrupted…the Inverter circuits will remain powered, even if you pull all of the house batteries out of the coach. But it takes both AC and DC power availability to establish Pass thru mode.

I’m interested in the inventory he comes up with of the affected circuits. Will be interesting to see if the grouping leads to an answer…fuse, connection, or microprocessor controller.

 

[Neemer]

Thanks for the info, @Chuggs. I also appreciate @Neal keeping this topic alive.

I inventoried everything that’s not working this morning. The list is long and distinguished, and with one exception, it is all tied to the panels that control everything in the house.

Doesn’t work:
Overhead lights of any kind.
Accent lights.
Basically any light of any kind.
Wall sconce.
Water pump.
Floor heat.
KIB control panel over driver’s seat.
HVAC
Fantastic vents

I think the two switches that control the security lights are toast and that’s why those lights stay illuminated. There is no feel to those switches at all. No click, no nothing.

The KIB control screen in the cabinet over the driver’s head and all wall switches illuminate, but are dead otherwise.

The watchdog autopsy revealed a toasted resistor.

 

[Neal]

Do you have a fuse panel of any type in your rear closet like @ARD had when her lights went wonky?

 

[Neemer]

I have similar in 1/2 bath.

 

[Neal]

In your second picture I see two large white molex connectors. If it were me I’d try disconnecting and reconnecting those.

Edit: and pull the fuse on KiB to power cycle it. The objective, IMHO, is getting the KiB components power cycled/rebooted.

 

[Neemer]

Found a problem. Don’t know if replacing it will cure everything, but it’s a good start.

 

[Chuggs]

Found a problem. Don’t know if replacing it will cure everything, but it’s a good start.

View attachment 24305View attachment 24306

Good detective work!