Resolved OASIS Saga Part Deux (bad relay)

[Neal]

About 1.5 years into my RV journey with my new 2017 Newmar Ventana I had the far too common electrical short from a bad wiring job by whomever installs the OASIS units. The issue as reported in another post results from the two 120V lines coming into the junction "chamber" which is really not of sufficient size causing wires to get their insulation scraped and then the use of wire nuts which can come loose. I solved that saga in round 1 by redoing the top wiring. In around February of this year, nearly 3 years into my journey I realized AC 2 wasn't working. You may think yours is working but it may in fact not be working if you don't verify with the voltage drop per this thread. I got on the horn with ITR to troubleshoot the AC 2 issue and found a second short under the hour meter. It initially didn't work but after jiggling the 3rd relay back which is AC 2 it then worked. That leads into the current saga.

When leaving on this journey a little over a week ago I realized AC 2 was not drawing amps. I opened it up and inspected wiring and after a bit of time ITR and I decided the relay must be bad. 12V wiring voltmeter tested good as well as the 120V lines. I ordered several relays from ITR and of course nothing goes smooth, I call for the tracking number today to see when to expect them and UPS can't deliver. Nice of UPS to convert the ground shipment sent on the 23rd to UPS next day air but instead it sat in their facility here in Austin because this is one of those campgrounds where deliveries have to come to your site and they don't take it to the office, don't ask me why! So dawg and I trek'd to UPS to pick it up to resolve this before tomorrow's big storm.

The relay is different from the one that was installed so another call to ITR. In essence, 12V wires on the small spades, 120V on the larger spades, orientation doesn't matter. AC 2 is now working. You can see in the picture below of the bad relay obviously the spade severed from the board within.

In this process AC 1 actually died on me so I had called to get more relays on the way, they're cheap and they're also cheap plastic parts. I wasn't happy with my wiring as I did take most of the connectors apart initially to reinspect and one came apart during that process. I went to amazon to look at alternate options for wire nuts and ordered the lever locks. I redid all of the wiring and used the level locks backed up with electrical tape.

It's always nice to learn how to fix things like this yourself otherwise you're going to be in upwards of 4 digits in RV mobile repair costs. It has been quite a lot of my time wasted as I do work from my RV but I'm glad to have this resolved and hopefully to never fail again.

One note as I've mentioned in the past. To gain easier access to the electricals in the OASIS unit there are three screws holding the front shroud on at 3 12 and 9 o'clock. Loosen (do not remove) those screws and they are key slotted holes. Lift up then pull forward to remove. It can be hard to remove as the paint sort of welded itself in place.

Not an overly complicated system and the phone support by ITR is a huge help otherwise it would have to go to an expert for repair. Glad to have the burner off in the hot TX weather. Case closed.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XH6WW4D/?tag=rvf01-20

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XGYXVXR/?tag=rvf01-20





One other item of note. When turning the two OASIS heater breakers off in the half bath the EMS shows bad wiring. With breakers on it shows OK. Anyone else want to turn your two breakers off and see if yours does the same? Maybe Dr. @Chuggs who has a Ph.D. in Tronology can figure out what's going on with the trons here?

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I redid all of the wiring and used the level locks backed up with electrical tape.

Did you take any photos of the lever locks in place? Are they more compact than the wire nuts?

TJ

 

[Neal]

You can actually see one wrapped in black electrical tape in the pic with the 3 relays and red arrow. It's near the top. It's easier to wire reliably and they can stack together as they are narrower but I'm not sure one is more compact than the other, they are just shaped differently. It was still a tight fit to push all the wires into the small area.

 

[Buly]

About 1.5 years into my RV journey with my new 2017 Newmar Ventana I had the far too common electrical short from a bad wiring job by whomever installs the OASIS units. The issue as reported in another post results from the two 120V lines coming into the junction "chamber" which is really not of sufficient size causing wires to get their insulation scraped and then the use of wire nuts which can come loose. I solved that saga in round 1 by redoing the top wiring. In around February of this year, nearly 3 years into my journey I realized AC 2 wasn't working. You may think yours is working but it may in fact not be working if you don't verify with the voltage drop per this thread. I got on the horn with ITR to troubleshoot the AC 2 issue and found a second short under the hour meter. It initially didn't work but after jiggling the 3rd relay back which is AC 2 it then worked. That leads into the current saga.

When leaving on this journey a little over a week ago I realized AC 2 was not drawing amps. I opened it up and inspected wiring and after a bit of time ITR and I decided the relay must be bad. 12V wiring voltmeter tested good as well as the 120V lines. I ordered several relays from ITR and of course nothing goes smooth, I call for the tracking number today to see when to expect them and UPS can't deliver. Nice of UPS to convert the ground shipment sent on the 23rd to UPS next day air but instead it sat in their facility here in Austin because this is one of those campgrounds where deliveries have to come to your site and they don't take it to the office, don't ask me why! So dawg and I trek'd to UPS to pick it up to resolve this before tomorrow's big storm.

The relay is different from the one that was installed so another call to ITR. In essence, 12V wires on the small spades, 120V on the larger spades, orientation doesn't matter. AC 2 is now working. You can see in the picture below of the bad relay obviously the spade severed from the board within.

View attachment 4755
View attachment 4752​

In this process AC 1 actually died on me so I had called to get more relays on the way, they're cheap and they're also cheap plastic parts. I wasn't happy with my wiring as I did take most of the connectors apart initially to reinspect and one came apart during that process. I went to amazon to look at alternate options for wire nuts and ordered the lever locks. I redid all of the wiring and used the level locks backed up with electrical tape.

It's always nice to learn how to fix things like this yourself otherwise you're going to be in upwards of 4 digits in RV mobile repair costs. It has been quite a lot of my time wasted as I do work from my RV but I'm glad to have this resolved and hopefully to never fail again.

One note as I've mentioned in the past. To gain easier access to the electricals in the OASIS unit there are three screws holding the front shroud on at 3 12 and 9 o'clock. Loosen (do not remove) those screws and they are key slotted holes. Lift up then pull forward to remove. It can be hard to remove as the paint sort of welded itself in place.

Not an overly complicated system and the phone support by ITR is a huge help otherwise it would have to go to an expert for repair. Glad to have the burner off in the hot TX weather. Case closed.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XH6WW4D/?tag=rvf01-20

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XGYXVXR/?tag=rvf01-20

View attachment 4753

View attachment 4754

One other item of note. When turning the two OASIS heater breakers off in the half bath the EMS shows bad wiring. With breakers on it shows OK. Anyone else want to turn your two breakers off and see if yours does the same? Maybe Dr. @Chuggs who has a Ph.D. in Tronology can figure out what's going on with the trons here?

View attachment 4756​

Neal, for the display to show correct readings, ALL the breakers on the main panel MUST BE ON.

 

[skychs]

I don't have an oasis in my Ventana LE. I'm really not sure what Im missing but with all the issues I'm hearing about I'm kind of glad I don't have one. Whats so special about them?

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I don't have an oasis in my Ventana LE. I'm really not sure what Im missing but with all the issues I'm hearing about I'm kind of glad I don't have one. Whats so special about them?

Unlimited hot water for one thing!

TJ

 

[Neal]

I don't have an oasis in my Ventana LE. I'm really not sure what Im missing but with all the issues I'm hearing about I'm kind of glad I don't have one. Whats so special about them?

It’s a great system but Newmar doesn’t do the best installing them. Two 5000 BTU electric heat elements and a 50k BTU diesel burner makes for wonderful heat and unlimited hot water without the worry of propane.

 

[ARD]

I don't have an oasis in my Ventana LE. I'm really not sure what Im missing but with all the issues I'm hearing about I'm kind of glad I don't have one. Whats so special about them?

Love my Oasis. Never have had a problem. Probably the only thing I haven't had an issue with. ?

 

[skychs]

Thanks. I would love a better heating system to include "heated floors" but I only have the two heat pumps and two propane furnaces. The propane furnaces are loud when they fire up and are a PITA when trying to sleep but it is warm air. We have never had an issue running out of hot water ..... yet. .

The Ventana LE is a nice coach (our first Class A) but Im starting to understand the price difference between the LE and the next level. Maybe one day.

 

[Neal]

The Ventana LE is a nice coach (our first Class A) but Im starting to understand the price difference between the LE and the next level. Maybe one day.

I went 3 years wondering about "the next level" and even last night was telling myself how much I love my coach. Making it your own is key. The mods I did made my coach better than anything I could imagine buying. If I bought something else it would only be for storage space for fulltiming. The are pro's and con's to all. The grass is not always greener, appreciate what you have and make it yours and love it.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

The Ventana LE is a nice coach (our first Class A) but Im starting to understand the price difference between the LE and the next level. Maybe one day.

The Ventana LE is a nice coach and we would probably still have ours if it had been a little bigger and had a bit more HP for the Mountain West traveling we do. I still miss the simplicity of the systems in that coach; no high-tech stuff to figure out...and, fix when it goes south.

Yes, there are also some nice things about the higher end coaches, but we could easily be happy with less technology for the sake of technology.

TJ

 

[Neemer]

When I was getting some work done on my coach, a guy who was full-timing in a newish Ventana came by and we chatted for a bit. I told him I was getting a new DS and he asked me if I was certain that was a good idea with everything that goes wrong with newer coaches. He said he missed the simplicity of the older systems and described a really bad scenario he had had with his slides. In spite of comments such as those and all of the negative PR I see DEF systems getting, I'm plowing ahead. I've never been great accepting advice when my inner kid is in control.

 

[skychs]

Truth be told ........ we have never been inside of a "next level" coach. Our Ventana LE is the nicest coach we looked at and we bought it. It fit our budget and we love everything about it except not having a king size bed. So ..... despite the bed we are still making it our home and enjoying it every day.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I went to amazon to look at alternate options for wire nuts and ordered the lever locks. I redid all of the wiring and used the level locks backed up with electrical tape.

It's always nice to learn how to fix things like this yourself otherwise you're going to be in upwards of 4 digits in RV mobile repair costs. It has been quite a lot of my time wasted as I do work from my RV but I'm glad to have this resolved and hopefully to never fail again.

One note as I've mentioned in the past. To gain easier access to the electricals in the OASIS unit there are three screws holding the front shroud on at 3 12 and 9 o'clock. Loosen (do not remove) those screws and they are key slotted holes. Lift up then pull forward to remove. It can be hard to remove as the paint sort of welded itself in place.

Not an overly complicated system and the phone support by ITR is a huge help otherwise it would have to go to an expert for repair. Glad to have the burner off in the hot TX weather. Case closed.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XH6WW4D/?tag=rvf01-20

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XGYXVXR/?tag=rvf01-20

I just got my order of these connectors yesterday and got a chance to really look them over today. These things are really slick! The small size (they are even smaller than they look here) and clean profile is great, and the lever-lock electrical connection looks really good. They obviously can be used in a small space much easier than conventional wire nuts.

Thanks for posting the information and links. These things are going to be a staple both in the coach and in the sticks 'n bricks.

TJ

 

[Neal]

??????????​

BREAKING: WAGO BAD

Folks, this morning I realized something wasn't quite right, this follows along with my questions lately about when to use diesel burner as my OASIS electric elements seemed to be underperforming. This morning I was using the furnace heating (blowers) and the air didn't seem that warm. I checked AMP drain on the EMS and sure enough zone 2 was OUT again. I checked the breaker box and zone 2 was tripped. Reset, test, tripped again (no surprise there).

Back to the OASIS disassembly and I find this. Yep, the WAGO connector is melted. It's rated to 20A, the breaker in the coach is 20A, I have a feeling the WAGO is not handling the load OR there is a defect. I don't know. I removed it and used a wire nut. All others look fine and I'm not replacing them unless they too fail and a breaker trips. For now I'm back up and running. Very very tired of OASIS electrical issues.

This problem is NOT Newmar's, this problem is a design flaw of ITR OASIS in not providing sufficient space for the 2 x 120V wires to be properly stored.

For those using the WAGO connectors I suggest returning to Amazon and use "bought by mistake" as that will sometimes trigger Amazon to refund you but NOT ask for you to return the items.

BREAKING BREAKING BREAKING BROKE!

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Hmmmmm! I can't conceive of that being just the result of a failed connector. Yes, it is possible to get a bad one (or, even, a bad batch) but there should be little heating in a proper connection. They are UL approved, so have been tested to the spec'd load rating. Obviously, the breaker did its job, but I suspect there's something else going on besides a failing connector.

One concern I do have is using them with different size wires in a given connection. And, while they are supposed to be rated for both solid and stranded wire, I am not sure I would mix types in the same connection. It seems to me that a larger wire on one side would reduce the force to a smaller or stranded wire on the other side.

I will be cautious when using them in high-amperage situations but will probably reserve them for 12V applications using similar size and type wires.

TJ

 

[Joe Hogan]

Neal, you might need the 10Ga wire Wago rated for 30amp for this application. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085P2WT8K/?tag=rvf01-20
COMPACT splicing connector (221-612) | WAGO USA

 

[Neal]

That's another problem with ITR OASIS and why are they using different wire types? Very odd stranded types of cable within connecting to romex. Regardless, it's interesting how some are jumping to defend this connector. It sounds like they realized there was an issue and upsized it. As stated, I'm leaving the ones that are intact alone, I put a wire nut on the one bad connection and hoping for the best going forward.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

That's another problem with ITR OASIS and why are they using different wire types? Very odd stranded types of cable within connecting to romex. Regardless, it's interesting how some are jumping to defend this connector. It sounds like they realized there was an issue and upsized it. As stated, I'm leaving the ones that are intact alone, I put a wire nut on the one bad connection and hoping for the best going forward.

@Neal, please don't mistake a discussion investigating the various aspects of the electrical connection with people just "jumping to defend" the Wago connector. Since this discussion began, I have spent a couple of hours looking into the use of Wago connectors and the consensus in the electrical industry is that they are well-regarded. And, they are certainly allowed by code.

That said, there are likely situations where the Wago Lever-Lock connector (aka "Lever-Nut") may not be the best choice in a given application. Wago does make other forms of this connector, including the "Wall-Nuts" that use a set screw instead of a lever lock. I'm suspecting (though I don't yet have any to verify this) that the Wago Wall-Nut might be a better choice where mixed wire sizes and types are involved.

TJ

 

[Neal]

Zone 2 passes about 15A. I'm not sure what could have caused this.