OTR Diagnostics, DEF, Derate Faults

[MapNerd]

This makes little sense to me. How would the engine know or care if you are adding fuel to the tank? You are adding to the top while it is drawing from the bottom if it is running. If not running it’s not drawing. Would love a logical explanation of why the engine should be running while fueling (except for DEF cycle situation being discussed).

Has nothing to do with fueling. My reason for keeping the engine running was precisely what @redbaron mentioned - short cycles of a diesel engine is not recommended. I should have been more specific to avoid confusion .

 

[MapNerd]

UPDATE: Just received a call from Spartan. I'm getting a DEF Head! I have Brett Davis and Shaun Huxford of NIRVC to thank. They really took great efforts to look out for me and I am so very grateful. I feel like I can breathe again. ?

So glad I bought from NIRVC. I’ve never needed em yet but if I ever do, I feel confident they’ll do the right thing. They always seem to

 

[J&JD]

Its bad enough when I put out the slides and bring out my lawn chair while fueling, don't need to add a shut off engine to further upset the guys

Now that I haven’t tried yet but sure would love to!

And I understand not having short engine start/stop cycles if you are getting codes or are worried about DEF head/sensor failure. Those would be good reasons for not cycling. However, there are virtually millions of heavy duty diesel vehicles out there that are constantly starting and stopping their engines all day/night long without serious consequences. Again, besides not wanting to block fuel lanes or having code problems I have never read in any manuals where it is recommended to leave your diesel running. In fact, I have read just the opposite that idling a diesel is hard on it.
Certainly not trying to be controversial, just trying to learn what truly is best practice.

 

[AbdRahim]

This is non-political - simply an observation. If we don’t start producing our own stuff. A war with China could be lost without any shots fired? Anyone awake over here?

 

[redbaron]

as little as we all drive these things...starting / stopping / idling is not going to affect long term.

I would never dream of a 1 hour idle. I don't mind idling for 15 min while fueling.

The "do not idle" talk in the manual is mandated by clean air acts. This is nothing about engine safety or durability. Starters wear out, but that won't happen on an RV. The most practical reason is code clearing, and it just feels right for me to not use the starter more often than required.

 

[J&JD]

as little as we all drive these things...starting / stopping / idling is not going to affect long term.

I would never dream of a 1 hour idle. I don't mind idling for 15 min while fueling.

The "do not idle" talk in the manual is mandated by clean air acts. This is nothing about engine safety or durability. Starters wear out, but that won't happen on an RV. The most practical reason is code clearing, and it just feels right for me to not use the starter more often than required.

In keeping with this thread, doesn’t excessive idling cause more regen cycles and wouldn’t that have possible adverse effects on the DEF head & sensors? Way out of my league here so I guess I better stop speculating. ??

 

[sheridany]

@AbdRahim in the spirit of continuing a non political thread, the horse may have already left the barn.....if you take into consideration the following known facts.

1. In terms of traditional outsourcing, 68% of US consumer product companies outsource some of their operations. Manufacturing companies outsource as much as 70–80% of their finished products.
2. China remains one of the most popular outsourcing destinations. With a predicted CAGR of 12.6% in the next five years, China’s BPO market volume will reach $28.5 billion by 2025 if the estimates are correct.

Yes, you are correct 100% but we have done it to ourselves I hate to say.

Back on topic.

 

[J&JD]

@AbdRahim in the spirit of continuing a non political thread, the horse may have already left the barn.....if you take into consideration the following known facts.

1. In terms of traditional outsourcing, 68% of US consumer product companies outsource some of their operations. Manufacturing companies outsource as much as 70–80% of their finished products.
2. China remains one of the most popular outsourcing destinations. With a predicted CAGR of 12.6% in the next five years, China’s BPO market volume will reach $28.5 billion by 2025 if the estimates are correct.

Yes, you are correct 100% but we have done it to ourselves I hate to say.

Back on topic.

We have often discussed this situation. I think many of us would gladly pay a few dollars more for products made in the USA. It really is a sad, and risky situation. Judy D

 

[redbaron]

In keeping with this thread, doesn’t excessive idling cause more regen cycles and wouldn’t that have possible adverse effects on the DEF head & sensors? Way out of my league here so I guess I better stop speculating. ??

I think that you are technically correct. I have never noticed a regen cycle, nor have I worried about it. From what I understand, Regen cycles don't hurt the def head or sensor. Those are hurt by either bad manufacturing, or bad DEF fluid. I have a refractometer (or whatever that thing is called) new in a box. I bought it after Dutchstar Don posted about it. Still never removed from the box, and probably never will.

I don't like to waste fuel, so at the point that idling becomes "excessive", I have already hit my limit of not wanting to waste fuel.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

On a slightly different tack, is there any validated data showing the actual frequency of DEF head failures? Since our coach is a 2018 (apparently near the epicenter of the problem), what are the odds that we’ll experience a problem? We have not had any DEF-related codes…yet. Our primary source of DEF is from the pump at T/A-Petro or Loves. And, like many others, we leave the engine idling when we refuel. Haven’t tried the slides and lawn chairs routine yet, though.

We were going to make one final run to Polson before selling the lot there (and the coach) but now I’m wondering if that is smart until a supply of DEF heads is once again available. There’s quite a stretch of I-90 in Idaho and Western Montana that is pretty short on cell coverage and/or decent places to park a coach alongside the road. With all the recent issues we’ve had, I really don’t need another major headache.

TJ