Why can't RV builders figure out the small trailer market?

[Blueblaze]

To answer the above questions--

No, I don't have kids, nor do I care to take my five grandkids RV'ing. They're the destination, not the journey.

Why don't we stay in motels? Ever since we sold the Phoenix Cruiser, we do. Which is pretty much why we don't travel much anymore. It costs an arm and a leg for the privilege of sharing a bed with a thousand previous strangers. Plus, we've got a dog. And for some unknown reason, the only available room in any hotel is invariably on the top floor. As I get older, I find dragging luggage all over creation to not be as fun as it once was.

Build a garage to keep my trailer? I did for the Cruiser, back when I lived on a rural acreage in Texas. Now I live in a retirement community in Florida, and I'd have to fill in my neighbor's pool to make room for an RV garage. I think he'd complain.

Replace the existing furniture? I'd love to. For instance, there are a bunch of them out there built on the same floor plan as the Riverside Retro 135 -- big dumb dinette in the front, with a jackknife couch facing the kitchen. The armless jacknife with the 4" cushions sits over the wheelwell, so even if there was room for a DeLeon recliner to recline, you couldn't get it in there. And yes, there's plenty of room for a murphy bed where that stupid dinette sits. So where do you go to buy a murphy bed that accommodates a huge trunk underneath? The point is, I can't replace the furniture, it has to be built around the chassis. But the vendor thinks his customer is bedding down a horde of kids every night, so he gives you a dinette that converts to a queen-size collection of sofa cushions, and a bench seat from a '49 DeSoto that "jackknives" into a twin bed -- so he can brag that it "sleeps five".

I think you guys are making my point. You don't seem understand the problem any better than the manufacturers do. The target market for small, SUV-towable trailers is RETIRED COUPLES who like to travel, not youngsters with kids who like to go camping. People with kids who can afford an RV buy something much bigger, and tow it with their giant pickup that doesn't fit in their garage, either.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

To answer the above questions--

No, I don't have kids, nor do I care to take my five grandkids RV'ing. They're the destination, not the journey.

Why don't we stay in motels? Ever since we sold the Phoenix Cruiser, we do. Which is pretty much why we don't travel much anymore. It costs an arm and a leg for the privilege of sharing a bed with a thousand previous strangers. Plus, we've got a dog. And for some unknown reason, the only available room in any hotel is invariably on the top floor. As I get older, I find dragging luggage all over creation to not be as fun as it once was.

Build a garage to keep my trailer? I did for the Cruiser, back when I lived on a rural acreage in Texas. Now I live in a retirement community in Florida, and I'd have to fill in my neighbor's pool to make room for an RV garage. I think he'd complain.

Replace the existing furniture? I'd love to. For instance, there are a bunch of them out there built on the same floor plan as the Riverside Retro 135 -- big dumb dinette in the front, with a jackknife couch facing the kitchen. The armless jacknife with the 4" cushions sits over the wheelwell, so even if there was room for a DeLeon recliner to recline, you couldn't get it in there. And yes, there's plenty of room for a murphy bed where that stupid dinette sits. So where do you go to buy a murphy bed that accommodates a huge trunk underneath? The point is, I can't replace the furniture, it has to be built around the chassis. But the vendor thinks his customer is bedding down a horde of kids every night, so he gives you a dinette that converts to a queen-size collection of sofa cushions, and a bench seat from a '49 DeSoto that "jackknives" into a twin bed -- so he can brag that it "sleeps five".

I think you guys are making my point. You don't seem understand the problem any better than the manufacturers do. The target market for small, SUV-towable trailers is RETIRED COUPLES who like to travel, not youngsters with kids who like to go camping. People with kids who can afford an RV buy something much bigger, and tow it with their giant pickup that doesn't fit in their garage, either.

So their your wife's family!!!

Tired of this!!!

 

[Wemustrv]

Welcome to RVforums. from Ely, Iowa. I get that you are frustrated but you are insulting the people you are trying to get to listen to you? Also from the SUV aspect and towing. There are SUVs out there that can very easily and safely tow a travel trailer. There are full size half ton and 3/4 ton that are capable units.

 

[JBright11]

When you sold your Phoenix, what was your plan?

 

[MemoriesByTheMile]

To the OP’s point, there probably is a segment of the market for this type of trailer, just not sure how big it is.
We have a 45’ coach setup for just a couple, though it can sleep 4. But the whole design, except for that hide-a-bed sofa, is for a couple.
Getting back to a target market, here is the interesting part, we have had our coach listed for sale, and the serious lookers have all walked away with one of the main issues being they wouldn’t have room to bring their grandkids along. When asked if they bring their grandkids along today in their RV that has room, they answer in the negative. But they want the OPTION to bring the grandkids along. I think for many this ability to bring others along helps justify spending the money, even if they never do it.
I have only seen one other coach with our layout with the very limited sleeping.
Based on the reactions to what we have seen when we tried to sell, I would venture to guess that there is a market for someone like the OP, but the manufacturers have found it to be a small market.
Don’t get me wrong, I love our coach and how it works for us, it is just that there doesn’t seem to be much interest for a unit with limited sleeping options.
I totally get the dislike for a dinette. We keep talking here about swapping out our dinette for an area to accommodate a desk as that is the only thing we use the dinette for, computer desk. (Our dinette has a 1.25” granite top and does NOT convert to sleeping area)

 

[Crazydog]

To answer the above questions--

No, I don't have kids, nor do I care to take my five grandkids RV'ing. They're the destination, not the journey.

Why don't we stay in motels? Ever since we sold the Phoenix Cruiser, we do. Which is pretty much why we don't travel much anymore. It costs an arm and a leg for the privilege of sharing a bed with a thousand previous strangers. Plus, we've got a dog. And for some unknown reason, the only available room in any hotel is invariably on the top floor. As I get older, I find dragging luggage all over creation to not be as fun as it once was.

Build a garage to keep my trailer? I did for the Cruiser, back when I lived on a rural acreage in Texas. Now I live in a retirement community in Florida, and I'd have to fill in my neighbor's pool to make room for an RV garage. I think he'd complain.

Replace the existing furniture? I'd love to. For instance, there are a bunch of them out there built on the same floor plan as the Riverside Retro 135 -- big dumb dinette in the front, with a jackknife couch facing the kitchen. The armless jacknife with the 4" cushions sits over the wheelwell, so even if there was room for a DeLeon recliner to recline, you couldn't get it in there. And yes, there's plenty of room for a murphy bed where that stupid dinette sits. So where do you go to buy a murphy bed that accommodates a huge trunk underneath? The point is, I can't replace the furniture, it has to be built around the chassis. But the vendor thinks his customer is bedding down a horde of kids every night, so he gives you a dinette that converts to a queen-size collection of sofa cushions, and a bench seat from a '49 DeSoto that "jackknives" into a twin bed -- so he can brag that it "sleeps five".

I think you guys are making my point. You don't seem understand the problem any better than the manufacturers do. The target market for small, SUV-towable trailers is RETIRED COUPLES who like to travel, not youngsters with kids who like to go camping. People with kids who can afford an RV buy something much bigger, and tow it with their giant pickup that doesn't fit in their garage, either.

 

[Buc]

Funnily enough, most of the retired couples I see out with RVs are in substantially bigger coaches or trailers and have lots of toys with them.

The ones that aren’t are in conversion vans. Aren’t those close to what you’re after?

We had friends stay with us for a couple of nights last month. They took a break from the bed in their Winnebago conversion to sleep in the guest bedroom in our home in an HOA community. They’re now in the Yukon heading to Alaska. Seems like a pretty solid way for a couple to travel, and they even have their mountain bikes on the back.

 

[Blueblaze]

Funnily enough, most of the retired couples I see out with RVs are in substantially bigger coaches or trailers and have lots of toys with them.

The ones that aren’t are in conversion vans. Aren’t those close to what you’re after?

We had friends stay with us for a couple of nights last month. They took a break from the bed in their Winnebago conversion to sleep in the guest bedroom in our home in an HOA community. They’re now in the Yukon heading to Alaska. Seems like a pretty solid way for a couple to travel, and they even have their mountain bikes on the back.

There are two basic requirements for any RV, large or small: A place to sleep and a place to SIT. That 2nd one is the one that every single RV builder seems completely unable to comprehend, for any RV less than 30' long.

Eating is optional -- you can eat out. Showering is optional -- you can use the one in the campground. But sitting at a cramped little dining booth on a 4" cushion, to eat your TV dinner while you crane your neck to see the TV, is so far beyond optional that it should be considered as an alternative to community service for the punishment of petty crime. And yet that punishment device is standard equipment in nearly every single RV of any type made on Planet Earth, while a simple comfortable place to sit is unheard of, in any small RV. What do you usually get for your $150K van conversion? A dinette in the back that converts to a queen-size collection of 4" sofa cushions to sleep on -- misery squared. But at least you don't have to tow a car behind it.

If I could find a class B that met those two basic requirements -- sleep and sit -- I would consider going into debt for three times the cost of my first home, to buy a self-contained vehicle that bakes in the sun at some storage lot 9 months of the year. But I'd rather have those two basic requirements met in a trailer I can pay cash for, that fits in my two-car garage next to the SUV that pulls it. Just call me weird.

 

[Crazydog]

There are two basic requirements for any RV, large or small: A place to sleep and a place to SIT. That 2nd one is the one that every single RV builder seems completely unable to comprehend, for any RV less than 30' long.

Eating is optional -- you can eat out. Showering is optional -- you can use the one in the campground. But sitting at a cramped little dining booth on a 4" cushion, to eat your TV dinner while you crane your neck to see the TV, is so far beyond optional that it should be considered as an alternative to community service for the punishment of petty crime. And yet that punishment device is standard equipment in nearly every single RV of any type made on Planet Earth, while a simple comfortable place to sit is unheard of, in any small RV. What do you usually get for your $150K van conversion? A dinette in the back that converts to a queen-size collection of 4" sofa cushions to sleep on -- misery squared. But at least you don't have to tow a car behind it.

If I could find a class B that met those two basic requirements -- sleep and sit -- I would consider going into debt for three times the cost of my first home, to buy a self-contained vehicle that bakes in the sun at some storage lot 9 months of the year. But I'd rather have those two basic requirements met in a trailer I can pay cash for, that fits in my two-car garage next to the SUV that pulls it. Just call me weird.

 

[redbaron]

There are two basic requirements for any RV, large or small: A place to sleep and a place to SIT. That 2nd one is the one that every single RV builder seems completely unable to comprehend, for any RV less than 30' long.

Eating is optional -- you can eat out. Showering is optional -- you can use the one in the campground. But sitting at a cramped little dining booth on a 4" cushion, to eat your TV dinner while you crane your neck to see the TV, is so far beyond optional that it should be considered as an alternative to community service for the punishment of petty crime. And yet that punishment device is standard equipment in nearly every single RV of any type made on Planet Earth, while a simple comfortable place to sit is unheard of, in any small RV. What do you usually get for your $150K van conversion? A dinette in the back that converts to a queen-size collection of 4" sofa cushions to sleep on -- misery squared. But at least you don't have to tow a car behind it.

If I could find a class B that met those two basic requirements -- sleep and sit -- I would consider going into debt for three times the cost of my first home, to buy a self-contained vehicle that bakes in the sun at some storage lot 9 months of the year. But I'd rather have those two basic requirements met in a trailer I can pay cash for, that fits in my two-car garage next to the SUV that pulls it. Just call me weird.

No Rv can fit in a standard garage unless it’s a pop up style. Don’t know how you missed that in my post earlier.

It just can’t happen.