Take That Flag Down Or Get Out

[FL-JOE]

Want to relate an incident that happened to us recently. It was unexpected and I still have a hard time believing it happened. I don't want to create a political debate by sharing this experience.

We are in a SW Florida RV resort and have been since the first of December. We are booked until April 1st. Since our arrival I have had my Uncommon-USA flag pole up with an American Blue Line flag on top and a second flag on the bottom. The second flag is a "make America great" President Trump flag (red, white, blue).

Last week the owner of the park, and her assistant, came to my door and told me I had to take my second flag down. When I asked why she said someone had "complained" and she did not want to start having problems so it was just easier to have everyone take their secondary flags down. At the time there were probably 6 or 7 sites out of 300+ that were flying such secondary flags. I told her this did not make sense because I had been displaying these flags for about 45 days with no problems. She insisted the secondary flag had to come down.

I told her I would not remove the flag just because someone complained. She became upset and informed me that either I take the flag down or she would evict me from the park. I again told her I would not take the flag down. Then I asked both of them if they knew what the blue line American flag stood for that I was displaying over the President Trump flag. Neither one of them had a clue what the blue line flag represented. I told them it was to honor Police Officers. I further told them that I served my country in Viet Nam then returned home to start a 34 year career as a police officer. I told them that my service, and my blue line flag gave me the right to fly the second flag under the first and no one was going to make me take it down. I asked her if she planned on providing me a refund on my deposit and she said she would. My neighbor (and buddy) who had the same flag displayed had walked over and he also said he would not take his flag down.

The resort owner told us she was a Trump supporter but was only trying to "keep the peace". There was additional conversation about someone complaining that I won't get into here. She finally admitted that she had just walked into the office and her manager had informed her of the complaint and situation with the flags. She said they could stay up for now and she would go back and talk to "some people" and give us a final decision soon.

About 30 minutes later she returned to my site and said the flags could remain. Since this incident last week between 6 and 8 additional sites are now displaying similar secondary flags.

There are a couple Florida statutes that could come into play if this would have played out. I understand that private campgrounds have the right to establish rules, however I felt this was overstepping. I guess it just makes me wonder what could be next from a campground, rules forbidding firearm possession? I am relieved that this campground owner took a minute and made the correct decision.

 

[Neal]

FYI - @FL-JOE contacted me first asking if he can post this, I said YES. This is not about politics, we know the rules here. I also told him I don't want a heavily policed or moderated site here, I want us all to be mature and friendly and of course respectful of one another. So yes, this is allowed and yes anyone feel free to discuss this but this is not about politics as he pointed out above, read his post and understand what the context of the post is about.

 

[FL-JOE]

Well said Neal. Probably 90% of us haven't been "renters" for 20 to 50 years. These types of situations certainly gives you something to think about.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Let me risk being chastised here, but...first...thank you for your service in both the military and as a police officer. Our son is an Army vet (as am I and also our daughter) and was a state trooper; our grandson is currently serving as a police officer in a small town. We do appreciate the sacrifices that come with military and public service. Again, thank you.

Now, to the flag situation. With today's contentious, politically divided populace, business owners don't want to be caught in the middle. The political temperature is so high in our nation these days that flying political flags can sow the seeds of serious discord. I know of several RV parks that now restrict the flying of flags to just the US national flag and/or a US state flag of choice. You may agree or disagree with that practice, but business owners want to appeal to all customers, regardless of their political views.

TJ

 

[turbopilot]

There are a couple Florida statutes that could come into play if this would have played out. I understand that private campgrounds have the right to establish rules, however I felt this was overstepping. I guess it just makes me wonder what could be next from a campground, rules forbidding firearm possession? I am relieved that this campground owner took a minute and made the correct decision.

Thanks for standing your ground. Saying ok to this kind of request is a slippery slope. If the flag comes down how about bumper stickers, hats, T-shirts, pins or even speech.

 

[FL-JOE]

TJ, I totally agree with all you said. If our resort would have listed a restriction in the rules about flying certain flags when we checked in for 4 months then we would have never displayed it in the first place. Heck, if we come back here next year and they have written rules about flying additional flags then you won't find one on my site.

Turbopilot, we had that exact conversation the next day. I have a similar hat, with the approaching Super Bowl there are numerous NFL banners/signs going up at different sites. What could another camper find offensive and complain about? I think the bottom line for this owner was it just wasn't worth the issues it would have created.

Our car is in the body shop and won't be done for another 3 days, I have a Doctor's appointment for a skin cancer issue in another 10 days, and I have waited for a February North Trail appointment to get something fixed on my coach. We are full timers but more importantly residents of the area. This time of year we would have had to migrate over 150 to 200 miles north to find a site for the rest of the winter. I know it sounds crazy, but considering all of that I still would have refused to take any of my flags down and left this resort.

 

[MapNerd]

Man, what kind of person complains about a flag someone is flying? You can fly whatever flag you want for all I care. There is no flag I can think of that couldn’t be interpreted as representing some form of controversy. Okay maybe the Canadian flag but that’s the only safe one. Fly a confederate flag, a MAGA flag, China flag, heck even fly the US Flag upside down if you want. It’s an expression of speech if you ask me. I might or might not like someone’s flag but complain to park management about it? Not a chance. At most, I might go buy a flag that is the antithesis to their flag and fly it on my site just for kicks. People have forgotten how to agree to disagree and respect the rights of others to express themselves in a reasonable manner. A flag is probably the least invasive manner in which to do that. I say fly your flag. Fly it high. Anyone who doesn’t like it, go buy a flag.

 

[Neemer]

Joe, most campgrounds I’ve stayed in do in fact prohibit firearms. I think they do that from a liability/insurance standpoint. And of course, I comply. ?

 

[FL-JOE]

Joe, most campgrounds I’ve stayed in do in fact prohibit firearms. I think they do that from a liability/insurance standpoint. And of course, I comply. ?

I may not be reading every CG's rules close enough that we have stayed in. I just asked the DW and she can't recall any, at least in the past two years, that have addressed anything about firearms in their rules. We haven't ventured up the eastern side of the U.S. yet, or have we been back to California in the past two years. Sounds like I'll be running into some of those CGs in the future as we continue to expand our travels.

 

[FL-JOE]

Man, what kind of person complains about a flag someone is flying? You can fly whatever flag you want for all I care. There is no flag I can think of that couldn’t be interpreted as representing some form of controversy. Okay maybe the Canadian flag but that’s the only safe one. Fly a confederate flag, a MAGA flag, China flag, heck even fly the US Flag upside down if you want. It’s an expression of speech if you ask me. I might or might not like someone’s flag but complain to park management about it? Not a chance. At most, I might go buy a flag that is the antithesis to their flag and fly it on my site just for kicks. People have forgotten how to agree to disagree and respect the rights of others to express themselves in a reasonable manner. A flag is probably the least invasive manner in which to do that. I say fly your flag. Fly it high. Anyone who doesn’t like it, go buy a flag.

You are so right John. Years ago we could even joke with friends and neighbors about our differences. Those days are long gone. We don't even bring up certain things at large family gatherings anymore.

 

[Jim]

Then I asked both of them if they knew what the blue line American flag stood for ...

Decal on the side of our Jeep.

 

[FL-JOE]

That looks really good!

 

[NWIP]

In today’s world I have gone back to just not talking about politics or religion. Glad you stood up to what you think was right, you earned it for your service. I too fly a blue line flag as both my sons are police officers and have been amazed that it has offended some. Can’t do anything these days without offending someone ?

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Quite a few campgrounds have policies regarding firearms, actually; but they are rarely enforced. As @USMCRet said, it is primarily for insurance purposes. Frequently, these firearms policies are in fine print somewhere and not displayed very prominently. IME, the most common policy simply says firearms "use" on the premises is prohibited.

We travel with firearms...always...and never mention them unless asked directly. If asked, I just say "we have them in an approved, locking container inside the motorhome." We have never had an issue. The "approved, locking container" satisfies most of the state requirements you will run into, except for New York and, possibly, a couple of other eastern states. Now, we only keep the "approved locking container" locked when we need to. And, it can be locked with the press of a button, if need be.

We have found that by not displaying gun-related stickers (NRA, 2nd Amendment, et.) and not mentioning firearms to others we don't know keeps our profile low. The one exception is if I am carrying (per my concealed carry permit) and have contact with a police officer, I identify myself as being "legally armed" and I keep my hands in plain sight until we are both on the same page.

TJ

 

[MapNerd]

A l

You are so right John. Years ago we could even joke with friends and neighbors about our differences. Those days are long gone. We don't even bring up certain things at large family gatherings anymore.

A lot of folks say that polarization is what’s wrong with the country today. I tend to not think so. It’s the villainization of people by those who have a different opinion. There’s nothing wrong with being a Trump supporter, Clinton supporter, Obama supporter, Bush supporter, Gun Rights supporter, Gun Control supporter, Environment supporter.
People have just forgotten how to have meaningful conversations with each other.

I’d challenge everyone on this forum, if you see someone flying a flag or rocking a bumper sticker that you don’t agree with, maybe talk to em about it. Don’t villanize them, just have a good conversation. Ask em about it. Yeah, some folks are going to tell you to take a walk but I’d bet you’ll be surprised by how many wouldn’t if you approach them the right way and in a respectful manner. Those conversations are the only way to come to understand each other’s perspectives and learn why we all support what we support. You might change their mind. They might change yours. More likely, you’ll both still have different views, but hey, you might get a free beer out of it and possibly even a new friend. Certainly, you’ll at least get a little more understanding about those on the opposite side of the fence from you.

You wanna complain about my flag (sidenote: I dont fly a flag BUT IF I DID)? Come knock on my door and complain to me. Don’t go tattle to the park management like a 7 year old. And dont mind me when I immediately walk away from you back into my rig, I’m just grabbing you a beer and a chair.

Pretty amazing @FL-JOE, I’m glad you didn’t take it down. As @turbopilot said, that’d be an awful slippery slope.

 

[sheridany]

All across America the flags fly...

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

And dont mind me when I immediately walk away from you back into my rig, I’m just grabbing you a beer and a chair.

Remind me to knock on your door and complain about something...anything. Any craft IPA will be just fine! The chair is optional; I can drink beer just standing around.

 

[AbdRahim]

FL-Joe: Thanks on all accounts.

 

[MapNerd]

Remind me to knock on your door and complain about something...anything. Any craft IPA will be just fine! The chair is optional; I can drink beer just standing around.

Sorry, you won’t get an IPA from me. They taste like feet. Hope you like Lagers, maybe a Belgian Triple if you’re lucky.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Actually, my preference runs to amber and dark ales, but I'd never turn down a lager and the opportunity for engaging conversation.

TJ