Ugh!! No more Spartan chassis for 2023!!

[Joe Dutchstar]

Just been informed that Spartan chassis are sold out for 2023. Either change chassis brand or wait till 2024.
we think we’ll wait for 2024. Production starts first week of August so not too much delay.
we might miss the Balloon festival

 

[Jim]

Is Spartan really that much better than Freightliner?

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

At this point we are not going compromise
We are going to get exactly what we want, the delay will only be a few weeks. And instead of getting a year “old “ new coach, we will get to enjoy an early model year coach.

 

[Rich W.]

Is Spartan really that much better than Freightliner?

I dont recall all the differences that appealed to me when I was shopping for a new coach, but here are a few:

Maintenance bay - filters easily accessed
Passive steer to 45mph rather than FL @ 15
Traction control (and other safety features optional on FL)
Traditional shift pad rather than shift on the column
All wheel disc brakes
Better warranty (don’t recall the details but it was worth noting)
Air connection for toad brakes
3 stage Jake (also on some FL chassis but not New Aire)
Automatic suspension control (I paid $10k for Active Air)
Suspended adjustable pedals

I’m sure there was more but that was enough for me and far more value than the $5000 up-charge (actually closer to $3500 because at the time you could still make a 71% deal). Ended up buying a used Ventana on a FL chassis (and added active air) and I’m perfectly satisfied, but if I were buying a new coach, especially 40’ or more, most of the above would make a difference to me.

 

[osuallen]

I dont recall all the differences that appealed to me when I was shopping for a new coach, but here are a few:

Maintenance bay - filters easily accessed
Passive steer to 45mph rather than FL @ 15
Traction control (and other safety features optional on FL)
Traditional shift pad rather than shift on the column
All wheel disc brakes
Better warranty (don’t recall the details but it was worth noting)
Air connection for toad brakes
3 stage Jake (also on some FL chassis but not New Aire)
Automatic suspension control (I paid $10k for Active Air)
Suspended adjustable pedals

I’m sure there was more but that was enough for me and far more value than the $5000 up-charge (actually closer to $3500 because at the time you could still make a 71% deal). Ended up buying a used Ventana on a FL chassis (and added active air) and I’m perfectly satisfied, but if I were buying a new coach, especially 40’ or more, most of the above would make a difference to me.

Most of these are no longer different between FL and SPTN on a Dutch Star (that Joe is looking for).

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

Just an observation, Spartan chassis is standard on King Air, London Air, Mountain Air, optional on the Dutch Star and Vantana. It is reported by many that the ride is better with the Spartan. yes Frightliner was forced to catch up to remain competitive. Many features are similar between them.

 

[Rich W.]

Just an observation, Spartan chassis is standard on King Air, London Air, Mountain Air, optional on the Dutch Star and Vantana. It is reported by many that the ride is better with the Spartan. yes Frightliner was forced to catch up to remain competitive. Many features are similar between them.

Yes my material (from memory) is a couple (a few actually) years out of date. One thing Im sure FL doesnt have is the old style shift pad, although people have reported that they adapted to the new style just fine and Spartan may have gone to paddles by now. Also I really like the maintenance bay, but these are not enough alone to justify the up-charge. I’d have to look at specs side by side like I did in 2018 and ’19 to make the decision, but at this point will probably never be faced with that prospect.

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

To put my comments in context, I spent an exorbitant amount to get my last coach, Canyon Star, to ride and handle in an acceptable manner. The reason we are going with the Dutch Star is to NOT have to spend on aftermarket extras to get it to have an acceptable ride. Consequently if the Spartan chassis is good enough for a Mountain Air, King Air, it should be the best I can get.
I am not here to talk down anyone’s choices, my priorities maybe different than yours.

 

[Rd1]

Spartan would be a much more stable platform. However, If you drove the 2, side by side and you didn't otice a difference, then don't worry about it..

Freightliner has way too many recalls. Its a feature and not a bug. Hence, the reason for having a consent order hanging on their necks from NHTSA. (spartan is not without faults). However, most people don't seem to mind that. Its a choice. 2016-17 freightliner tag axles were defective (out of center) and can not be centered/aligned. Yet most people didn't seem to notice that either. Latest one just showed up on irv2 with a 2016 MADP (26k mi). If folks can not notice an out of alignment tag axle, then the chassis characteristics are not that important. Ofcourse, in this case, part of the blame is on comfort drive, as CD will mask misalignment pulls on steering just like a cross wind. Hence, one reason most people have difficulty noticing such differences.

Joe, this is typical of Newmar to run out of chassis this time of year, for their planned production thru June. If they are on the same schedule. Which sounds like it. Just one pointer, if you are not in a rush, give the new order another month or so. Just like you, I ordered about the same time and they ran out of 2016s. So I orderd one of the very early 2017s. Too many problems. give production people time to adjust to their new re-tooling for the new year model production and sort out at least some of their production bugs, rather you sorting it out!

I had the spartan on my order. however, only changed it because I have a freighliner dealer whom I have known for over 20 yrs. I drive my coach to their service bay, I stay with the coach while they work on it, and I have the same tech always work on my coach over the years. Knowing I had a 100% reliable service shop, I chose the wrong chassis. it happens! btw, all my previous DPs were on freightliner, because of a very dependable, reliable and competent service shop.

Unless you have seen, up close and personal, the monkey work some of these shops do, you can not appreciate the value of the quality serivce shop. I know the service manager, the shop foreman, etc.. all I do is email the SM, i get a price quote and schedule. rest, I just show up and stay in the coach, unless there is an issue to diagnose, then I work one on one with the tech. when done, I just leave, whenever, they get the service ro done, they email it and its gets paid right away.

Some of you with freightliner chassis have likely experinced the tail lights/pdm issue. that problem I worked with my freightliner shop in 2017 thru 2018 where finally forced freightliner, with newmar help to issue the first recall thru NHTSA. Yet, it took them 5 years, till I wrote a letter to NHTSA admins in feb 2022, which helped tighten the noose around their neck to issue the third recall, which seems to have finally resolved the safety defect. Thats one of the main problems with freightliner mind set. they know most of their customers do not notice such issues, or simply don't care.. so freightliner tends to ignore their defective problems.

 

[Chargerman]

Since many of the builds are purchased by dealers without an end customer it would seem that you could find a dealer that has one purchased and buy that slot and have it built to your specs.

 

[jagpot]

Just been informed that Spartan chassis are sold out for 2023. Either change chassis brand or wait till 2024.
we think we’ll wait for 2024. Production starts first week of August so not too much delay.
we might miss the Balloon festival

Well probably just as well. Don't want to risk being shot down. I know you are watching Neal. It was just to easy. Couldn't resist. Sorry in advance.

 

[Neal]

Well probably just as well. Don't want to risk being shot down. I know you are watching Neal. Sorry in advance.

I had a few folks from RVF stop by to pay me a visit.

 

[Stuart W]

Well this is a subject that I have had very strong opinions on, for those that know me from the past I was a Spartan advocate. My 2018 DS was on a Spartan. (Note in 2018 there was no difference in price for SP or FL)
I now own a 2023 DS on a Freightliner.
I have read some statements on this thread that no longer apply in 2023
The 23 FL now has a 5 year warranty
The FL now comes with Air Force One installed on MH

Some of the benefits I believe FL has over Spartan is the column shift that also controls the engine braking, no more taking your eyes of the road to operate. Some don’t like the column shifter, I find it much better
The FL is $8,400 less money ( ok $ 6,300 after discounts) still a bunch of money
The FL has way more service centers available

At the end of the day everyone should get what they want, for me the FL drives the same as my SP and now is a much better value. It’s not that I’m against the Spartan and at the same price I would have probably went SP just because I was familiar with it and still have a Spartan Jacket . They are both great chassis’s and have the same engine and transmission.
Hope to see you on the road, Stuart

 

[Stuart W]

I forgot to mention Both the SP and FL have rear drum brakes on the drive and tag axle

 

[Stuart W]

well here are the actual tag axle differences from SP to FL
SP does steer until 45 MPH
FL steers up to 20MPh
FL states that their design gives 20% tighter turning angel
for you that don’t know me from the past I’m not arguing. Just making sure that other shoppers have the Facts to make a informed purchase

 

[Rd1]

...... (Note in 2018 there was no difference in price for SP or FL) ......SP does steer until 45 MPH

Just to add; fyi

SP tag steer on accelaration is from 0-45mph, however on deceleration is from 25mph-0.

2017 and 2018 Newmars on Sp and FL had the same chassis price.. IMO, that was likely due to all the tag axle problems FL had for 2016 and 2017 units with the passive tag. Spartan steer tag version had issue with their introduction in 2014 and 2015, which was recalled. FL had their problem with their intro in 16 & 17, which for what ever reason was not recalled. IMO matt miller had been planning to sell newmar and didn't want to rock the boat. so they dropped the SP upgrade fee just in case. as it turns out, most RV people seem to be oblivious to such issues and various problems in general.

Regardless, personal choices are personal choices. However, the tribalism is not productive. When there is a problem regardless of the manufacturer, you have to call them out. Including Newmar, otherwise, it comes at all of our collective costs.

 

[13Charlie]

I owned a 2017 Newmar Ventana on a Frieghtliner Chassis. I wish I had not sold that motorhome as it handled great and only had a few problems from the time it was new. I noticed a problem with the chassis and called Frieghtliner. They got me in and handled the problem the same day!

Fast forward I just purchased a 2022 Dutch Star 4081 on a Spartan Chassis off the lot in Florida. I can tell you that the support is not as good at Spartan as Frieghtliner, had a difficult time finding a shop in the area I was in and had to drive over 300 miles to get to a shop that could address the issue. Issue is still not resolved. Im not impressed so far with the additional cost of the Spartan over Frieghtliner and I should notice a difference as the Dutch Star has independent suspension.

I got the right deal on this unit, but I would prefer the Frieghtliner which has more shops for maintenance and repair, and now with the additional cost of the Spartan I just don't see it.

With all that said, I am not a mechanic or an RV expert, just the average retired guy with toys.

 

[Just George]

I've not seen the 23's so if this has changed please chime in. One thing Spartan does that is really nice is they put the air system condensation filter in the service bay. Freightliner has it mounted on the frame rail by the tag & drive axels & it's a real pain to get to & change.

 

[Stuart W]

I've not seen the 23's so if this has changed please chime in. One thing Spartan does that is really nice is they put the air system condensation filter in the service bay. Freightliner has it mounted on the frame rail by the tag & drive axels & it's a real pain to get to & change.

Although the Spartan information shows the side mounted filters, the Newmar configuration is not this way. The filters are mounted in the back behind the engine similar to FL

 

[RandDescape]

From the Newmar spec sheet the upcharge for Spartan for '23 in the longer coaches does get you 1000lb higher weight limit on the front axle and 950lb more NCC for the coach because of that extra axle capacity. On the 43' FL the front axle is 19k, the Spartan is 20k. For some folks who run heavy that alone may be worth the upgrade.

We were going to order a FL in '19 but our dealer had no more slots left for FL and knocked off almost all of the upcharge for the Spartan to book the sale that day. We've been happy with the service (local Spartan shop specializing in EMS vehicles is 30miles away) except for the DEF head issue which affected a lot of folks who weren't traveling enough in '20. The only Spartan complaint I really have is that we had to upgrade the shocks because every bridge transition felt like we were going to slingshot into the air. Replaced the shocks at 6mo and it's been great ever since.

- Richard