DEF bypass Newmar mountain Aire 2019

[Mike Pearson]

Does anyone know where to buy a DEF bypass kit for a spartan chassis?

 

[Rich W.]

What exactly are you trying to by-pass? A faulty DEF head, obtain an emergency kit in case the head fails, or the entire DEF system? The DSS will mimic a working DEF head sending the correct values down the CANbus line. A system delete is a little more involved and not legal in the US but there are shops in Canada that will do it for you and some with…other options.

The DSS can be found here: DEF Sensor Simulator – Arduino DUE (Original Build) – DEF Sensor Simulator

 

[Bigblockyeti]

I don't think I've seen a DEF head that isn't faulty, or more accurately designed to fail. The question is will that happen during or after warranty coverage expires? It's not really a question of whether or not it'll be inconvenient but rather how inconvenient when, not if, it fails.

 

[Rich W.]

I’m still trying to keep up on this although my system is probably stable at this point. The following lost details what I view as the current situation:

• Freightliner DEF headers (I believe still supplied by TE connectivity) manufactured after 2021 seem to have very few, if any failures. It’s early though so time will tell.
• Spartan is still having problems as of 2022 although they are using a new supplier - Errecinque. Whether they are still using shaw or not I don’t know, but they still have problems.
• For either Spartan or Freightliner post 2016, the DSS will work and is cheap insurance. If I had one of these coaches I’b build the DSS and carry it at all times.
• I’m still seeing failures on pre-2016 rigs and for these the DSS will be of no help. For Freightliner rigs, a new (current gen) DEF header will likely solve the problem. For Spartan rigs I’m not so sure - depends on whether the new Errecinque heads are sound, and the status of Shaw supplied units.
• For any units under five years old and under 100,000 miles all emissions issues are covered under warranty and as stated above the DSS will get you through.
• For those of us with pre-2016 rigs, we are on our own for repair costs, and there is no DSS type device to bail you put. Unless you already have a new DEF head installed (from a more recent failure), it would probably be a good idea to carry one and learn how to install it unless or until you have a current DEF head installed.
• Many pre-2016 failures are due to residue on the mechanical tank level float. They can often be removed and cleaned and put back in service. Info on this can be found here: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2014/SB-10046782-4244.pdf . Keeping the tank as full as possible at all times (to keep the float apparatus wet) will help prevent this issue.
• Many post 2016 failures are due to faulty “Quality” sensors and all the sensors (all solid state) seem to have corrosion issues. Keeping good DEF in the tank (in spec and never over-heated) will go a long way to help avoid issues.
• Coach-net is working with Spartan to get folks back on the road more quickly providing mobile techs, and Spartan seems to have at least solved the supplu chain issue and will ship the parts asap.
• There is a new software “patch” that will by-pass a bad DEF head and Cummins will install it if parts are unavailable, but only after your DEF head fails, so unless it fails in their parking lot, it is a totally useless gesture.
• The DEF tank heater valves are still failing, although apparently infrequently, and that will kill a DEF head. The preemptive solution to this is to install an external valve in the engine coolant supply line and keep it off unless you need it, or by-pass it all together. Since DEF doesn't start freezing until 12°F, most of use will never need a DEF tank heater.
• All the reports to the NHTSA on the issue seem to have fallen on deaf ears - there has been no response to anyone that I know of and it would appear they are completely ignoring the issue, most likely because it’s a government mandated problem.

This list ended up being a little longer than I anticipated, but it should help folks navigate the problem.

 

[Rd1]

All the reports to the NHTSA on the issue seem to have fallen on deaf ears - there has been no response to anyone that I know of and it would appear they are completely ignoring the issue,.

Thank you for the comprehensive review.

just curious, why NHTSA should take action on the DEF head issues?

I have had dealings with NHTSA admins and their investigative people. There are ways to get thru.

However, as I understand it, their mandate is primarily safety issues and the emission control. emission control meaning if the system/engine is emitting fumes above and beyond the gov mandated parameters.

If the head is defective and failing to operate, that is the mfr issue. If I had to deal with this mess, I'd write a letter to the ceo of the DEF head mfr and copy his legal counsel and send copies to the engine, the chassis and the Rv mfr Execs as well and their legal counsel too. All certified letters and with return receipt. Worst case scenario, they would drop your letter in the trash bin. I have been told that many times, but my experience has been otherwise. Just be professional and let these people know they have a problem and it needs to be addressed.

you see, these crummy execs, nowadays, can financially benefit themselves immensely. These exec are entirely in charge of their operations. If there is a problem and no one is raising the issue, they have no reason to spend money out of their pockets. If the masses are willing to pay for their 'junk', you think they have any motivation to stop from profiting themselves? I am sure there are execs with integrity, very very few!!!

I've had dealings with such people previously. If they can cheat you out of a dollar, they wouldn't hesitate for a moment.

Every coin has two sides, we need to do ours. The DEF head issue or the newmar slide motor issues among others. Folks, need to consider writing a letter or two to the execs in charge and raise these 'defective' issues, otherwise, we own it. just a thought.

 

[turbopilot]

Freightliner DEF headers (I believe still supplied by TE connectivity) manufactured after 2021 seem to have very few, if any failures. It’s early though so time will tell.

Spartan is still having problems as of 2022 although they are using a new supplier - Errecinque. Whether they are still using shaw or not I don’t know, but they still have problems.

Having been kicking tires the last month considering getting back to a DP I can tell you the Spartan issues have permeated the market place. I was continually admonished by Newmar dealers to avoid Spartan chassis for now. When I started my search I was leaning toward a Spartan. Most of the standing inventory of 2023 and a few 2024 New Aires seem to be on Spartan chassis. Freightliner New Aires are hard to find.

 

[Rich W.]

Thank you for the comprehensive review.

just curious, why NHTSA should take action on the DEF head issues?

I have had dealings with NHTSA admins and their investigative people. There are ways to get thru.

However, as I understand it, their mandate is primarily safety issues and the emission control. emission control meaning if the system/engine is emitting fumes above and beyond the gov mandated parameters.

If the head is defective and failing to operate, that is the mfr issue. If I had to deal with this mess, I'd write a letter to the ceo of the DEF head mfr and copy his legal counsel and send copies to the engine, the chassis and the Rv mfr Execs as well and their legal counsel too. All certified letters and with return receipt. Worst case scenario, they would drop your letter in the trash bin. I have been told that many times, but my experience has been otherwise. Just be professional and let these people know they have a problem and it needs to be addressed.

you see, these crummy execs, nowadays, can financially benefit themselves immensely. These exec are entirely in charge of their operations. If there is a problem and no one is raising the issue, they have no reason to spend money out of their pockets. If the masses are willing to pay for their 'junk', you think they have any motivation to stop from profiting themselves? I am sure there are execs with integrity, very very few!!!

I've had dealings with such people previously. If they can cheat you out of a dollar, they wouldn't hesitate for a moment.

Every coin has two sides, we need to do ours. The DEF head issue or the newmar slide motor issues among others. Folks, need to consider writing a letter or two to the execs in charge and raise these 'defective' issues, otherwise, we own it. just a thought.

Think about being stranded in central Wyoming (or anywhere similar) at night or on a weekend (or both) on the side of the road, perhaps in the middle of winter (failures are random and unpredictable) with no cell service and you can’t move your rig. A DEF head failure could most assuredly put people at risk and many “RVs” are more a domiciled than a recreational pursuit, and many of these domiciles house an older, more at risk population with health issues. Having spent over 40 years in public safety I recognized this as a safety issue immediately. And I was not the only one - quote to the contrary.

All efforts to communicate with the manufacturers of the DEF heads were completely unsuccessful. The coach builders point to the Chassis manufacturers as did Cummins since none of the DEF system components are considered engine components. And the DEF head producers would not communicate at all. So the next obvious step was to appeal to the government. But since it was a government mandated problem they were quite mute on the issue as well. Essentially the mandates were put in place before technology was ready and no one would take responsibility. So here we are 13 years later and they are just now getting a handle on placing mandated fixed facility scrubber technology in the mobile environment.

And this is simply not in the same category as a slide failure. Slides can be stowed manually. There is nothing you can do on the side of the road if you are derated because of a faulty sensor, which is all the more frustrating since the emissions system is still functioning properly but bad sensors are reporting otherwise to the ECM stranding the occupants. But as I mentioned previously, you’ll never get the government to intervene on a government mandated problem. But at least many of us filed complaints so there is significant record for what that’s worth.

 

[Rich W.]

Having been kicking tires the last month considering getting back to a DP I can tell you the Spartan issues have permeated the market place. I was continually admonished by Newmar dealers to avoid Spartan chassis for now. When I started my search I was leaning toward a Spartan. Most of the standing inventory of 2023 and a few 2024 New Aires seem to be on Spartan chassis. Freightliner New Aires are hard to find.

I wouldn’t eliminate Spartan chassis rings from the search (Spartan would actually be my preference) but I would build a DSS and take it with me to pick up the coach and have it with me at all times. And its worth noting that the DSS was an ad-hoc effort preformed by talented and motivated consumers fed up with the lack of responsibility and support from the manufacturers and regulatory agencies.

As I mentioned above, the only government approved solution (the Cummins software patch) is really no solution at all. And during the entire decade that people were being stranded by faulty technological efforts at emissions control, the technology (programming) existed to override the problem but it was limited to emergency vehicles and agricultural machines. A safe, tested, capable solution was available the entire time. Unforgivable.

But I digress. There are many benefits to the Spartan chassis and I wouldn’t pass one up when the DSS is readily available for a safety back-up for around $100.

 

[turbopilot]

But I digress. There are many benefits to the Spartan chassis and I wouldn’t pass one up when the DSS is readily available for a safety back-up for around $100.

As I said I started my search with a bias for the Spartan chassis. But it gets your attention when a Newmar dealer tries to talk you out of an $11,200 upgrade to a Spartan chassis for a New Aire. This problem is taking on some significant new implications in the marketplace well beyond the inconvenience of being stranded with a DEF head failure.

 

[Rich W.]

As I said I started my search with a bias for the Spartan chassis. But it gets your attention when a Newmar dealer tries to talk you out of an $11,200 upgrade to a Spartan chassis for a New Aire. This problem is taking on some significant new implications in the marketplace well beyond the inconvenience of being stranded with a DEF head failure.

Yes just the up-charge has gotten ridiculous. It was around $4k just a couple years ago.