Question Installing an ignition switch?

[TJ&LadyDi]

I received the new ignition switch for the 2018 Mountain Aire from Spartan today and am hoping it will solve the engine shut-off problem discussed in a previous thread. I plan to install it myself and could use some advice.

Examining the new switch, I can see that it connects to the electrical system via a single, six-pin insulated square plug. Simple enough. The biggest issue will be accessing it. There appears to be a small, removable panel (4 screws) at the bottom of the dash that looks to be in the right position to gain limited access to the back of the switch. Hopefully, I can unscrew the bezel and pull the old switch down to swap in the new one. Has anyone changed out one of these switches? Is the panel I’m seeing likely to be for that purpose.

I am thinking that I should disconnect both the house and chassis batteries (via the appropriate disconnect switches) prior to making the electrical swap. Given the insulated, modular plug connection, that may not be necessary but I’d prefer to be safe rather than sorry. Is there any issue with both sets of batteries being disconnected at the same time for a period of time; probably 15-30 minutes? I’m wondering about things like system computers losing losing settings/parameters, etc. Any thoughts?

Any other advice would also be gratefully received. Many thanks.

TJ

 

[MapNerd]

Can’t help but I’ll cross my fingers and toes that it all goes smoothly for you and solves the issue

 

[redbaron]

Post a picture. Usually a lock ring holds it in place. Remove the ring, and the switch should go "into" dash, and be removed from behind like you said.

 

[J&JD]

Having both switches off at the same time should not be a concern. Actually there is no reason to turn them off at all, but if you do, not to worry. Sure hope that solves the engine running situation.

 

[sheridany]

 

[John&Andrea]

I know you have probably thought about this but is there anything on You Tube on the switch. Often I find information there on projects that come up. Good luck.

 

[Joe Hogan]

Not sure if this helps but informative none the less

 

[FLSteve]

@TJ&LadyDi ... did you get it installed?

FLSteve

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

@TJ&LadyDi ... did you get it installed?

FLSteve

It is on the list for this week. Since we’re still several weeks out on the air conditioner replacement, we won’t be using the coach for a while. I’ll report on the install as soon as I get it done.

TJ

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

UPDATE: The new ignition switch has been “installed” but not yet tested. It was a bit of a bear since I had to removed the whole center dash console to access the switch body. And—naturally—it takes a special, three-point tool to loosen/tighten the bezel nut. Guess who didn’t have one and couldn’t find one locally. Yep, yours truly.

So, I consulted the “experts” on U-Tube. And, found a workaround there. Sometimes you have to think outside the box (hard for a dinosaur to do; easier for U-Tubers)! Instead of trying to rotate the bezel nut, the U-Tube video suggested rotating the switch body instead until the bezel nut was loose enough to rotate from the front. Excellent suggestion! I was able to get a pair of channel lock pliers on the switch body and rotate it in the opposite direction to begin the loosening process. Being able to disconnect the wiring at the switch via a nice 6-pin connector sure helped! After about a half turn of the switch body, the bezel nut was loose enough to rotate from the front and remove the old switch.

Installing the new switch was a similar process except that I had to keep adjusting the position of the bezel nut in order to get the switch in the proper orientation (key vertical, start position to the right) when it was tight. That was a bit tedious, but we finally got it done.

By the time I got to that point, I was ready for a break, so I’ll leave the center dash console reinstall and switch testing for tomorrow. At least I got the switch installed.

TJ

 

[Old-RV'er]

Excellent job, sure hope this is issue. Keep old switch for the day you are bored and need something to play with. Then maybe you can see the issues inside, assuming you can take it apart.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Second Update: The new ignition switch has been installed and tested. (Drum roll, please!) It did NOT resolve the issue.

I did learn a couple of things along the way, however. First, all of the gauges work with the ignition switch in the ON position, so I am suspecting it is in the fuel shut-off circuit. I think there is a relay and the solenoid-operated fuel shut-off valve. I’ll be calling Spartan in the morning to see if they can help me pinpoint the location of each. I have looked extensively, but am not finding either one. Not knowing what either looks like could be part of the problem.

Then, I observed that the engine will not shut down using the chassis battery switch unless the ignition switch is in the ON position. I tried with it in the OFF position and it continued to run. I think this may tell me something, but I’m not quite sure yet. Gotta ponder this a bit.

So, the bottom line is that I now have a new ignition switch…and, a spare…but the engine shut-off problem persists. Probably not a good time to ask whether I like the Newmar Mountain Aire on the Spartan chassis.

TJ

 

[J&JD]

Second Update: The new ignition switch has been installed and tested. (Drum roll, please!) It did NOT resolve the issue.

I did learn a couple of things along the way, however. First, all of the gauges work with the ignition switch in the ON position, so I am suspecting it is in the fuel shut-off circuit. I think there is a relay and the solenoid-operated fuel shut-off valve. I’ll be calling Spartan in the morning to see if they can help me pinpoint the location of each. I have looked extensively, but am not finding either one. Not knowing what either looks like could be part of the problem.

Then, I observed that the engine will not shut down using the chassis battery switch unless the ignition switch is in the ON position. I tried with it in the OFF position and it continued to run. I think this may tell me something, but I’m not quite sure yet. Gotta ponder this a bit.

So, the bottom line is that I now have a new ignition switch…and, a spare…but the engine shut-off problem persists. Probably not a good time to ask whether I like the Newmar Mountain Aire on the Spartan chassis.

TJ

You might try contacting a Cummins dealer. Maybe they have an idea or two.

 

[Old-RV'er]

Hmmm, had the coach been worked on, and then the problem start? Has/have been electrical issues prior to this issue? If yes to either, something might be hooked up backwards. The ignition switch on/off should not matter, when MASTER switch has been turned off. Assuming, you are killing coach and chassis power (both) when trying to stop engine. If question one above has value, try to remember what was messed with, and then that may lead you to thing which is backwards. Tomorrow, going to ours, going to see if any power to ignition switch before I turn on master chassis switch. Know already, house side switch needs to be on for dash radio and back up camera to work. Not sure if dash gauges work with only chassis switch on. Sorry, was almost positive switch was issue. Any recalls performed? Fuel rail might have done something, if applicable. Keep us posted please.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

The problem popped up out of the blue. No work had been done on the coach for months. No previous “electrical issues” either. Obviously, something has failed or is failing. I think there must be a relay that activates the engine shut-down and it is likely in the Engine Control Module (ECM) but nothing in that module is labeled in a way that I can determine which relay activates the engine shutdown.

I have talked to Newmar, Spartan and Cummins about this. No one wants to take ownership of the problem. And, living out here in the west, there aren’t many easy choices for service.

We’ll keep pounding away on this. There has to be a solution; I just need to find it.

TJ

 

[Old-RV'er]

Ok, my best service experience in the west has been in two places. Believe you are near NW, so call Cummins coach care in Coburg, OR, and ask to speak with the service manager. Explain (assume you will be able to talk to him/her) and see if they can offer any insight. I have had my best success at that facility. Realizing spartan built chassis, and then installed engine transmission, et-al. The ECM, hopefully is in about the same location as FL. My fallback would then be the Freightliner dealer in Tolleson, AZ. I have no experience with spartan, must be some good ones, and maybe you have one in mind. Got to be someone, who cares enough to help you. We all do here, not much we can accomplish here though.

Ok, not germane but might be. Stored my jeep for month outside and when came back to get it, over next few weeks, just did not work correctly. Found out, mice had gotten into wiring harness under a cover in engine compartment, ate some insulation on wires (now built with soy based products) and the fix was a 1200 wiring harness, or the tech spliced them all back together individually, regardless 460.00 later car has run fine for last 5+ years after that experience. So my suggestion is to look around all over the place and see if mice have fed on some of your wires, realize this is a long shot, and even if reason, you might not see damage. I now keep mouse traps all over MH and Bounce dryer sheets in compartments, got the best smelling storage compartments around, and no mice. Yes, could be relay going bad, or fuel shutoff solenoid, but those should be covered under warranty. Let us know., as short of that, out of ideas. If your experience with Spartan, Cummins, and Newmar. We have our last RV period.

 

[Neal]

@TJ&LadyDi - do you have DEF HEAD protection mode enabled by any chance?

 

[flyboy013]

@TJ&LadyDi I can’t remember so I figured I’d ask - did you ask Spartan for a wiring diagram that’s specific to the ignition circuitry. They have provided me with specific diagrams in the past. Was just thinking that it might help identify test points.

Also, you mentioned an appointment for getting one of the AC units replaced. I’m curious what the problem is. While all three of my units work, the kitchen unit has always had a vibration associated with it that is more noticeable when sitting/standing in various places in the coach. Curious if your issue is for a similar problem.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

@TJ&LadyDi - do you have DEF HEAD protection mode enabled by any chance?

Not that I know of. I’m not even sure what “DEF HEAD protection mode” is. If that’s the software workaround that @redbaron and others have been discussing recently, then no, I have not done that.

TJ

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

@TJ&LadyDi I can’t remember so I figured I’d ask - did you ask Spartan for a wiring diagram that’s specific to the ignition circuitry. They have provided me with specific diagrams in the past. Was just thinking that it might help identify test points.

Also, you mentioned an appointment for getting one of the AC units replaced. I’m curious what the problem is. While all three of my units work, the kitchen unit has always had a vibration associated with it that is more noticeable when sitting/standing in various places in the coach. Curious if your issue is for a similar problem.

Yes, Spartan did provide me with a schematic of the ignition switch system, but it doesn’t really help much at this point. It doesn’t identify the engine shutdown circuit.

As for the AC, the center one (kitchen) has a frozen compressor. It just wouldn’t start one day; no symptoms prior.

TJ