Newmar or Tiffin?

We have been narrowing down our search for a 37 to 40 foot coach, likely to buy new or at least very late model year. We like the Tiffin Allegro bus 40IP and the Newmar Dutch Star 4081 or 3736. All of these models have 1 1/2 baths and all the same bells and whistles. The real question or problem I am having is determining whether Newmar is significantly better than Tiffin and if so where and why? We can look and and buy a Tiffin and have it serviced a lot closer to our home than we can the Newmar. Closest Newmar dealer is 1 1/2 hour away verses 35 minutes to the Tiffin dealer. I am interested to hear from Newmar folks as to why they went Newmar over Tiffin or vice versa. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[FLSteve]

I have run into a few newer Tiffin owners at RV parks recently and a common theme of conversation is frustration with warranty items and customer service. So far I have not had to experience Newmar service much but what little contact I have had I am happy with. They are having a hard time getting new 'Thank You ' jackets of the correct size to us but I am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth

Here is a Newmar "on the road" customer service story. Yesterday my back Dometic toilet stopped working and I quickly figured out it was the electric solenoid water fill valve. I called the Mountain Aire customer service line and they got Dometic on the phone with us and within several minutes I had a replacement valve coming by 2-day shipping to me on the road. So, I am very pleased with the response. Fortunately, I have not had make many calls like this so far with this coach. Just my story since customer service was mentioned in the above post.

FLSteve

 

[HD64]

I realize this is a dated tread but had to chime in since I’ve owned both Tiffin and Newmar. The Tiffin was a toy compared to the Newmar. The build quality is not even comparable. We had a year of misery with the Tiffin being in and out of service the first year. In fact the day I brought it home new it spilled all its hydraulic fluid on my beautiful driveway. I could go on and on. The Newmar is 10x better build quality and the support from the factory is 2nd to none. I could write a book about the differences.

 

[tarponbus]

I too want to jump in, I know it's late but hopefully it helps someone out.

I've been a Tiffin guy my whole life (been around RV's since 1999). I loved Tiffin back in the day but when I bought my 2021 Phaeton I noticed some issues. Granted, it was during Covid but still. The main issues were QC (Paint, Cabinets and wood mainly). I decided to order a brand new 2022 Allegro Bus 40IP and while it did the job here's why I couldn't stand it any longer:
- Wood wasn't sanded on back of doors and most trim. Try and dust anything and it caused the rag to catch.
- Paint was dripping everywhere. Over runs, overspray (EVERYWHERE INCLUDING INSIDE ON STEERING WHEEL AND STAIRWELL AS WELL AS WINDOWS!). Overall the paint when you really looked at it was worse than you can imagine).
- Cabinets were flimsy, I would pull on them and they would torque and twist.
- Rear bathroom heat - Anyone thinking of a 40IH or 40IP pay attention! After a day of driving you could not walk on the floor, it would literally burn your feet. It took 2-3 hours to cool down. After 7 warranty repair attempts to solve extremely hot air blowing out from under the shower I ordered a new coach.
- Rear bathroom had diesel soot intrusion in more than 10 places! I was always wiping diesel soot off of cabinets etc. This was an issue back in the day with Monaco/HR on their larger Oregon built coaches as well. The Newmar after 10,000 miles has had zero and I mean zero soot issues.
- Countertops were severely scratched on delivery and it was every single one. (When I got my Newmar they were shiny, shiny!) The kitchen counter was actually warped and dipped in the middle and Tiffin said it was cosmetic and they wouldn't fix it.
- If you hit a bump running down the road the front cabinets above you made such a loud banging sound you would have thought they fell off!
- 12+ service items that had been attempted to be repaired by the dealer and Red Bay 3-7 times and still weren't right.

Overall the coach was a sound coach but for the $$$ we spent I couldn't believe it. I had sold Country Coach, Newmar, Monaco/HR, Blue Bird and Tiffin during my career and this Bus looked and acted more like a 2001 Monaco Diplomat than the Allegro Bus I had known all those years. Nothing against a 2001 Dip, it was a great coach for it's price point and time but my Allegro Bus shouldn't act like it...

I decided to order a 2023 London Aire and all I can say is that it's night and day. The fit and finish is second to none, the coach is silent. I have no issues with heat and the back of the coach. They paint is amazing, they've stepped their game way up. The front seats are a more expensive Villa (even the Dutch Star which is the Bus competitor). Heck Tiffin is using some cheap off-brand furniture manufacturer our of MS and after 10 months of use the dinette looked 5 years old. They don't even use Villa on everything anymore and got cheap!

The service however blew me away. Tiffin always was such a service juggernaut and I always sold that when selling someone a new coach but now being a customer I can tell you this "New" Newmar is just like the "Old" Tiffin and maybe better. Oh and Newmar's wood work... WOW! Night and day over the Tiffin. Newmar has even shipped parts to me for me to repair and will let my mobile repair guy come to my house and do warranty work!

I could literally write for hours on the night and day experience and in talking to folks and seeing their coaches I can tell you it's not because I bought a London Aire. I walked a Bay Star gas coach that had better cabinets and paint over my 2022 Allegro Bus, same goes for the Kountry Star diesel etc.

I'm sorry if this comes off as ragging on Tiffin but between 2012 when I left the RV industry to today I think they deserve the criticism. They charge very close to the same money but it's not a Bob Tiffin coach any longer and many industry folks I still talk to completely agree. In fact at a show recently one of the Tiffin reps even agreed with me and then said "but we'll still sell them all at the end of the day". That statement alone made me happy I jumped ship.

To anyone thinking about Tiffin and Newmar. Go touch, feel and drive each coach. Spend a few hours in each, run your fingers over surfaces. Look places you wouldn't normally look then make the decision you feel is best. At the end of the day they are both splurges, they're both good coaches. I just truly feel after being inside and along side the industry and having sold hundreds of RV's you'll see the difference too.

 

[Rustycoach]

I too want to jump in, I know it's late but hopefully it helps someone out.

I've been a Tiffin guy my whole life (been around RV's since 1999). I loved Tiffin back in the day but when I bought my 2021 Phaeton I noticed some issues. Granted, it was during Covid but still. The main issues were QC (Paint, Cabinets and wood mainly). I decided to order a brand new 2022 Allegro Bus 40IP and while it did the job here's why I couldn't stand it any longer:
- Wood wasn't sanded on back of doors and most trim. Try and dust anything and it caused the rag to catch.
- Paint was dripping everywhere. Over runs, overspray (EVERYWHERE INCLUDING INSIDE ON STEERING WHEEL AND STAIRWELL AS WELL AS WINDOWS!). Overall the paint when you really looked at it was worse than you can imagine).
- Cabinets were flimsy, I would pull on them and they would torque and twist.
- Rear bathroom heat - Anyone thinking of a 40IH or 40IP pay attention! After a day of driving you could not walk on the floor, it would literally burn your feet. It took 2-3 hours to cool down. After 7 warranty repair attempts to solve extremely hot air blowing out from under the shower I ordered a new coach.
- Rear bathroom had diesel soot intrusion in more than 10 places! I was always wiping diesel soot off of cabinets etc. This was an issue back in the day with Monaco/HR on their larger Oregon built coaches as well. The Newmar after 10,000 miles has had zero and I mean zero soot issues.
- Countertops were severely scratched on delivery and it was every single one. (When I got my Newmar they were shiny, shiny!) The kitchen counter was actually warped and dipped in the middle and Tiffin said it was cosmetic and they wouldn't fix it.
- If you hit a bump running down the road the front cabinets above you made such a loud banging sound you would have thought they fell off!
- 12+ service items that had been attempted to be repaired by the dealer and Red Bay 3-7 times and still weren't right.

Overall the coach was a sound coach but for the $$$ we spent I couldn't believe it. I had sold Country Coach, Newmar, Monaco/HR, Blue Bird and Tiffin during my career and this Bus looked and acted more like a 2001 Monaco Diplomat than the Allegro Bus I had known all those years. Nothing against a 2001 Dip, it was a great coach for it's price point and time but my Allegro Bus shouldn't act like it...

I decided to order a 2023 London Aire and all I can say is that it's night and day. The fit and finish is second to none, the coach is silent. I have no issues with heat and the back of the coach. They paint is amazing, they've stepped their game way up. The front seats are a more expensive Villa (even the Dutch Star which is the Bus competitor). Heck Tiffin is using some cheap off-brand furniture manufacturer our of MS and after 10 months of use the dinette looked 5 years old. They don't even use Villa on everything anymore and got cheap!

The service however blew me away. Tiffin always was such a service juggernaut and I always sold that when selling someone a new coach but now being a customer I can tell you this "New" Newmar is just like the "Old" Tiffin and maybe better. Oh and Newmar's wood work... WOW! Night and day over the Tiffin. Newmar has even shipped parts to me for me to repair and will let my mobile repair guy come to my house and do warranty work!

I could literally write for hours on the night and day experience and in talking to folks and seeing their coaches I can tell you it's not because I bought a London Aire. I walked a Bay Star gas coach that had better cabinets and paint over my 2022 Allegro Bus, same goes for the Kountry Star diesel etc.

I'm sorry if this comes off as ragging on Tiffin but between 2012 when I left the RV industry to today I think they deserve the criticism. They charge very close to the same money but it's not a Bob Tiffin coach any longer and many industry folks I still talk to completely agree. In fact at a show recently one of the Tiffin reps even agreed with me and then said "but we'll still sell them all at the end of the day". That statement alone made me happy I jumped ship.

To anyone thinking about Tiffin and Newmar. Go touch, feel and drive each coach. Spend a few hours in each, run your fingers over surfaces. Look places you wouldn't normally look then make the decision you feel is best. At the end of the day they are both splurges, they're both good coaches. I just truly feel after being inside and along side the industry and having sold hundreds of RV's you'll see the difference too.

After reading this I am reconsidering my recent bitch session on QC. I still think there is no excuse at this price point for sloppy fit and finish but compared to Tiffin the Newmar does seem as close to perfection as possible for a production level coach. It isn’t a Newall after all.

 

[Jim]

I too want to jump in, I know it's late but hopefully it helps someone out.

Thank you for taking the time to do such a detailed review!

 

[jaydee325]

Here is my highly subjective opinion.

Last motorhome was approximately 2002. 2019 conditions were right for us to get back in. Started looking. Covid hit, so I was restricted to internet research.

Newmar and Tiffin were on the short list. The more I looked and researched, I came to the conclusion that the vaunted Tiffin quality was mostly based on Bob Tiffin's outstanding customer support. While that sounds good on the surface, the support was necessitated by quality issues on the production line for quite some time. Great that you'll be taken care of, not so great if your motorhome is sitting on a dealers lot or Tiffin's lot waiting for service while you want to get out there?

I'll reiterate here, my perceptions on my research.

We went with Newmar.

 

[Joe Hogan]

Tiffin was founded and managed by Bob Tiffin for many years. Bob Tiffin was the Company and treated as a Family run company, high quality in every aspect.
During the 2010s, the Bob Tiffin's sons took over management and quality suffered. Bob had to take over management and attempt to save the company.
In 2020, Thor purchased Tiffin from the Tiffin family and put the grandson in charge. It appears the transition has not gone as well as hoped, expected.

Leigh Tiffin Named President of Tiffin Motorhomes

Tiffin Motorhomes continues to look to the future while remaining connected to our great past.

tiffinmotorhomes.com

 

[Boat Bum]

Those Tiffins sure are purty, though.

 

[Headhunter]

A lot more Newmar guys than Tiffin guys on this site. You want Newmar quality get your wallet out and dig much deeper. You can bash Tiffin all you like. Every big manufacture has problems. Like the comfort drive going out on multiple Newmars at $8K to $12K a hit. DEF failures, generator failures, solar panel failures, and more.

Everybody has a favorite usually the one they own. I was on a caravan tour for 6K miles last year.their were 24 coaches involved, of the 24 there were 4 Tiffins and 2 Newmars. One Newmar lost his second air condition in CO. Had a new one shipped in and replaced was a 2020. The other a 2018 had a major slide failure cold not get it in. Finally a local tech got it in, but it never worked the rest of the trip.

Oh yeah my Tiffins 50 amp plug separated from the rubber power cord, duck tape to the rescue.

The biggest question should be how close is the dealership that's going work on your coach. It's not fun to drive back to the mothership when it's over 1k miles away.

 

[Joe Hogan]

A lot more Newmar guys than Tiffin guys on this site. You want Newmar quality get your wallet out and dig much deeper. You can bash Tiffin all you like. Every big manufacture has problems. Like the comfort drive going out on multiple Newmars at $8K to $12K a hit. DEF failures, generator failures, solar panel failures, and more.

Newmar quality had suffered as well under the new ownership as had customer service. The Consolidation of the RV industry is painful.

Though, my recent Newmar purchasing experience and factory personnel FPU interactions to date have been excellent. I'll be better able to better gauge any quality issues/improvements when we take delivery in November.

Our last 2018 Canyon Star Newmar, after the initial year shake down, was excellent. A few odd vendor product issues, but quickly remedied with the help of CS at Newmar. And it held value very well.

One of our main criteria on purchasing a RV, is Support, Factory and Dealers. So far we have relied almost exclusively on Factory support, being disappointed by many dealers and private maintenance facilities.

With the 2024 DutchStar, I feel we'll have to rely more heavily on Factory support and CS due to the Complexity of the systems. Yes the Factory is far away from Florida, our home base, but we just work the trip to the MotherShip into our trip schedule. With proper maintenance we will hopefully avoid roadside issues.

I do worry about DPF, DEF, Cummins, Oasis systems, etc. issues. Need to read less stories