Can Newmar ever return to the quality of the Miller era?

[Neal]

As I was driving to pick up my dogter from camp I was thinking...can Newmar ever return to the quality of the Miller era? I'm guessing with my 2017 I was on the tail end of the family owned operation where woodwork was a market worthy item, now it's outsourced. Paint was the talk of the town, how great it was, we all know that went to nothing short of terrible. Components within from vendors such as windows, tile floors, etc. all seemed to go the wrong way. The list goes on...

Newmar worked among many someone interesting facilities but the fine amish craftsmen did the amazing job and turned out quality products, I think it was around 7 a day back then. Let's say Winnebago builds a new factory, which I would expect, and automates much of the line, as much as possible. We take the craftsman out of the picture and it's high speed production cranking them out at record rates but at someone consistency. Is it even possible to have a finely crafted Newmar motorcoach again?

I think the days of Newmar as we knew it are long gone and with the Miller's and many of the senior execs out, the family spirit gone, it's a thing of the past. I'm glad I could buy a coach in the Miller era and at half of what it costs now just 7 years later. I hope others can find a quality coach and will not buy blindfolded because of what was once before. Recent model years are returning to market faster than ever, this is going to be an interesting story to see how it plays out.

A lot of amazing people within Newmar that work hard and have served us well for so many years. Those people are gold. I think the playing field has been leveled in "economy coaches" and to get quality you're going to have to find brands such as the ones in 7 digit territory.

Love what you have as the grass is very likely not going to be greener in a newer coach. If your coach gets you to where you want to be, enjoy it. Make it your own. Be happy and hang out with the great people which making RVing what it really is about. And go find those amazing destinations, share them here, it's not about buying RV's, it's about living the dream of the open roads. So much to see and do...get on it!

 

[Rich W.]

Well said. I really feel my ‘16 Ventana is a luxury coach - its well built, well appointed, and it pleases me. That’s good enough. I’ve been tempted to “upgrade” but recent events have caused me to rethink that, and while I covet a side radiator and a little more hp, if I do buy another coach it will be from the same era, or earlier.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Neal, you mentioned the 7/day builds, does anyone know what the build rate was in 2021, 2022, and 2023?

To answer your question, I don't see any way the Newmars manufactured under the WGO banner will ever be equal to or better than the Miller Newmars. Look at Tiffin since the Thor buyout vs when it was a family-owned business. One difference, however, Bob Tiffin is still active in the daily business of Tiffin. I have some friends who were in Red Bay last week and had a sit down with Bob. I understand he was as gracious and customer-oriented as ever.

 

[AbdRahim]

I don’t think big corporate could ever compare with the smaller family run companies, where quality was the focus, and the priority was a happy customer. Corporate seems ultimately to focus on $$$$ first. Customers become simply the necessary evil from which they extract the $$$$’s. Employeesnsimply tools for the extraction. This may sound extreme, and I hope Newmar never lookslike this, but it happens far too often IMHO.

 

[J&JD]

Well said. I really feel my ‘16 Ventana is a luxury coach - its well built, well appointed, and it pleases me. That’s good enough. I’ve been tempted to “upgrade” but recent events have caused me to rethink that, and while I covet a side radiator and a little more hp, if I do buy another coach it will be from the same era, or earlier.

Totally agree! We treasure our ‘17 DS. Judy D

 

[Joe Hogan]

We are generally happy with the 2024 DSDP. There are some minor items outstanding but nothing unexpected.
Unfortunately the days of family owned businesses and craftsmanship are long gone. The consolidation of various industries into Public Companies been ongoing for many years.
Big Box models really accelerated this consolidation of businesses.

 

[Stuart W]

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We are generally happy with the 2024 DSDP. There are some minor items outstanding but nothing unexpected.
Unfortunately the days of family owned businesses and craftsmanship are long gone. The consolidation of various industries into Public Companies been ongoing for many years.
Big Box models really accelerated this consolidation of businesses.

thats great news that your coach is good, maybe it’s a sign the the “Covid Coach’s” ended in 2023. I believe your business observations are correct .

 

[Neal]

Nothing is saying any year is good or bad. A 2025 may be fine or better than a 2005. We all hope any manufacturer is doing their best in quality and customer service. None are trying to intentionally produce trash. I'm sure any coach of any year at that time people may not feel matches up to prior years, it's called confirmation bias as I learned that term from @turbopilot. Love what you have, take advantage of that warranty, and enjoy it!

 

[GUS2000]

We are almost 7k miles in with our 2024 DS 4369 and so far we have had nothing major raise its hear.. and we all know how much Louisiana roads shake and rattle these coaches lol

 

[Underboss]

Endless berating of Newmars, but somehow Entegra's are fine Whats Entegras excuse since Thor owns them? Do they get a pass on their poor foundation design? Or the cracked tiles I have seen in all at shows and dealer lots?
Not sure why so many think, somehow, that Newmar is a problematic coach while those like Thor have been poor quality forever.
Then, when one points out the basic quality differences, they are told not to. Oddly enough the folks I see calling them "COVID coaches" are generally owners of older year models with no real life experience with a 21 and up coach. But because the last few years many newbies entered the lifestyle and are not experienced, have many new operator error created questions somehow that makes Newmar bad. So, the non 21 up owners feel compelled to attack those years.
I am not sure if its some form of jealousy or a mildly veiled attempt to prop up the values of their older coaches.
So which is it? Is it assumptions on the part of the non owners or propping up the values of their older coaches?
One or two owners with any major issue out of five thousand does not make a brand crap.
I also wonder how those slamming Newmar because Winnebago bought them, say about Entegra because Thor bought them. We all know Thor's reputation. But we know thats not going to fit the agenda.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

You caught me, guilty as charged. I was hoping to get the value of my 2017 Ventana up a couple hundred thousand dollars.

The only thing I will address seriously is in my opinion you're hearing from some of us older model Newmar coaches owners with coaches were built before covid and the buyout by WGO. I can't speak to the quality being built by WGO but I can speak to the Miller quality. Customer service pre-WGO was amazing. Today, it has taken days to get a returned phone call or a response to an email. I never had that experience before.

I love my Newmar.

 

[Underboss]

You caught me, guilty as charged. I was hoping to get the value of my 2017 Ventana up a couple hundred thousand dollars.

The only thing I will address seriously is in my opinion you're hearing from some of us older model Newmar coaches owners with coaches were built before covid and the buyout by WGO. I can't speak to the quality being built by WGO but I can speak to the Miller quality. Customer service pre-WGO was amazing. Today, it has taken days to get a returned phone call or a response to an email. I never had that experience before.

I love my Newmar.

Well, I am not sure why you do not get a call back but I have received calls back within 4 business hours on 4 occasions. I have also received calls back about questions on new rvs. Why would you need to call so often with a 2017 coach? Booking service?

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

So you must be the reason I dont get a call back, you're always talking to them. Lol. Because it's a 17.

Man...you're a tuff audience. I think I'll go wash my truck or cut my toenails. Have fun.

 

[Underboss]

So you must be the reason I dont get a call back, you're always talking to them. Lol. Because it's a 17.

Man...you're a tuff audience. I think I'll go wash my truck or cut my toenails. Have fun.

You know, I would not mind if you washed my car and I will call Newmar and get them on the horn for you! Have fun!

 

[Rich W.]

I think there are more than two possibilities and I don’t see an agenda here. Just my .02 worth…
Cheers!

 

[Stuart W]

We are almost 7k miles in with our 2024 DS 4369 and so far we have had nothing major raise its hear.. and we all know how much Louisiana roads shake and rattle these coaches lol

It seems like 2024 is past the Covid Nightmare, love the paint colors

 

[Neemer]

I feel qualified to address the covid coach issue, having picked up my DS in Apr ‘21.

Ive put over 30K miles on it and with the exception of my FWS failure last Nov, it’s been virtually flawless. Right or wrong, I attribute much of my happiness with this coach to my outstanding tech who prepped it for FPU.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I’d rate my anal retention a solid 6. Perhaps if I were more persnickety, I’d find more to complain about. Maybe not.

At any rate, I love my coach and the experiences I’ve had at the service center since purchasing it.

I feel blessed beyond words to be living in the times we live. Our founding fathers’ minds would be blown to see how we live and the things that upset us.

 

[Stuart W]

I feel qualified to address the covid coach issue, having picked up my DS in Apr ‘21.

Ive put over 30K miles on it and with the exception of my FWS failure last Nov, it’s been virtually flawless. Right or wrong, I attribute much of my happiness with this coach to my outstanding tech who prepped it for FPU.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I’d rate my anal retention a solid 6. Perhaps if I were more persnickety, I’d find more to complain about. Maybe not.

At any rate, I love my coach and the experiences I’ve had at the service center since purchasing it.

I feel blessed beyond words to be living in the times we live. Our founding fathers’ minds would be blown to see how we live and the things that upset us.

Thank you for your account and I’m truly happy for your positive experience esp after 30k driven. I’m curious about your FWS failure, did one side of the room get stuck out? I ask because mine had failed and recently I have been helping another member with his.

 

[Jabber Jaw]

QUALITY of the PRODUCT?
QUALITY of the SERVICE?

I believe the quality of the product will improve due to a slower rate of production. And from a greater demand by the customer! The ridiculous prices are causing the buyer to be more particular! They are demanding the quality or they won't spend their money!

The quality of the service is and was excellent. Meaning the services performed at the Service Center! Hopefully, as the older "master" techs retire, they are passing on the high quality of service performed.
Service regards the "free stuff", out of warranty stuff, and broken stuff has diminished, which is upsetting to some folks! I believe that is a "corporate" crackdown on spending. And sadly, quite a bit of the "stuff" that breaks isn't Newmar's fault, though they installed it.

Will it ever go back to "Miller time"? Doubtful, but even "Miller Time" had folks that were less than happy with things breaking, etc. Go back and research this & other forums from years past.

And "planned obsolescence" seems to be what happens in almost anything & everything we buy today! Credit the Chinese with this economic philosophy. But WE pay the price to buy, replace, buy replace, & its a vicious cycle!

My ".02" cents!

 

[Neemer]

I’m curious about your FWS failure, did one side of the room get stuck out?

One of the lifting cylinders failed. We had to replace that, and I’m headed back to Napannee next month to have a couple of stretched chains replaced.