DEF Head Failure

[Neal]

Entegra Coach® - Spartan RV Chassis

"We take pride in customer service" - except for the occasion we tell you break down, you pay $5K for your tow, if you survive the heat and not get killed on the side of the road or get your coach damaged from an improper tow, then call us for your reward - your DEF head replacement and a milkbone cookie.

 

[redbaron]

just wait until the Onan Generators are required to use DEF---then we will have lots of fun.

 

[Neal]

2017 Newmar Ventana with non DEF GEN on FL - $1,275,989 (HWH Active Air included at no extra charge)

 

[ARD]

Is it true most of these events are happening primarily on the Spartan chassis?

There are certainly a lot of Spartan cases; however, FL is not exempt. There are plenty of DEF header issues over there as well. Was just reading today that def headers are on backorder at FL.

Someone at the Entegra Forum at the other place wrote the attached PDF that summarizes the issues very well in my opinion with regards to the DEF head issues manufactured by Shaw Development.

 

[ARD]

just wait until the Onan Generators are required to use DEF---then we will have lots of fun.

Not sure if I should laugh or cry.

 

[turbopilot]

There are certainly a lot of Spartan cases; however, FL is not exempt. There are plenty of DEF header issues over there as well. Was just reading today that def headers are on backorder at FL.

Someone at the Entegra Forum at the other place wrote the attached PDF that summarizes the issues very well in my opinion with regards to the DEF head issues manufactured by Shaw Development.

Great write up. Hundreds of post boiled down to a few pages. This whole DEF mess is brought to you by the State of California that pushed very hard on the US EPA between 2000 and 2010. To derate a vehicle because of the potential of some NOx emissions is insane. The safety issues created far surpass any impact on environmental quality. There simply has to be a better way to make sure that malfunctioning pollution control equipment is fixed in a timely manner.

 

[jagpot]

I had interesting situation (warning) recently going from Southern California to Utah. After reaching the top of the long uphill grade out of Baker, with outside temperatures 108*, I got “low DEF concentration” message. Engine continued normally as I preceded to north Las Vegas for my planned fuel stop which was one exit north of NIRVC. Plan was fuel, top off DEF and call NIRVC or Spartan and ask if I should continue or get a diagnosis. I did not shutdown during fueling and added approximately 4gal of DEF.

Low and behold “low DEF concentration” warning went out. I decided there was no benefit looking for a diagnosis since I no longer had a fault. I have only traveled approx 200 miles with no faults. I am thinking that DEF fluid temperature may have something to due with the fault, adding fluid at the fuel stop may have reduced the fluid temp in the tank.

Had the same problem also with audible alarm coming home from Vegas NIRVC 2 weeks ago. It has been at Cummins LA ever since. They have replaced a DEF sensor and are looking for the Inactive DEF code. They are conversing with Spartan. The fluid in the tank was half full when we got the error. Spartan says my year coach does not have the DEF head problems.20q7 and above.

 

[Neal]

Concur, it is a good article with the most important paragraph to me being:

Impact of the Current Situation

While not every DEF head assembly failure has resulted in a large motorhome stopped in a dangerous location, some have. Until this problem is solved there will be more. As implied earlier, a motorhome stopped in an unsafe area could easily result in a multi-vehicle crash, serious injuries, or even fatalities.

Other impacts, while less serious than major injuries or loss of life, include owner uncertainty regarding the advisability of embarking on planned trips; lost revenue to RV parks, State & National Parks, restaurants, entertainment venues and other travel-related businesses when owners cancel trips or choose to stay home; and lost confidence in the relevant recreational vehicle brand names, potentially affecting future sales and employment at those companies.

Also worth mentioning is that a growing number of motorhome owners are “full-timers,” meaning their motorhome is their home. Some of those full-timers are relatively young and use their motorhomes for work-related travel, home schooling, and seasonal employment. A DEF head assembly failure with no replacement part available for an extended period of time would be particularly problematic for those individuals and families.

It raises a huge red flag to me when a company advises people to drive until failure and get towed and then you'll get the part to fix your situation. This is a huge safety risk and probably a liability for any company to offer this guidance to their customers. It can also be a tremendously costly situation to the motorhome owner and this guidance is terrible in many ways.

 

[J&JD]

Obviously many of us have our own ideas on how to keep the DEF system working correctly. Many of them are good common sense ideas. However, none of these ideas are scientifically proven and without full input from those that engineered the systems and are working (we hope) to fix the problem, they are nothing more than unproven ideas. Why, why, why aren’t those responsible for these DEF head failures keeping us informed on what is happening and best practices going forward to avoid the derate situation???

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Obviously many of us have our own ideas on how to keep the DEF system working correctly. Many of them are good common sense ideas. However, none of these ideas are scientifically proven and without full input from those that engineered the systems and are working (we hope) to fix the problem, they are nothing more than unproven ideas. Why, why, why aren’t those responsible for these DEF head failures keeping us informed on what is happening and best practices going forward to avoid the derate situation???

Why? Because it might cost money to fix the problem and that can cut into corporate profits; something the bean-counters don’t like. I’m thinking that when a class-action suit is filed on behalf of Spartan-chassis motorhome owners, the bean-counters may find their cheap way out may be pretty expensive. Very expensive!!!

We’ve filed a complaint with NHTSA on this and I encourage others to do the same. “Drive it until it dies” is not the appropriate response to a potentially life-threatening part failure.

TJ