DEF Head Failure

[Neemer]

Regarding heat, I ran a little experiment yesterday. Using my trusty $30 infrared thermometer from Amazon, I measured the temp of the DEF tank after a 45 min run from Richmond to home. Ambient temp was 86 deg at the time.

The DEF tank below the level of the DEF came in at 95 deg. Above the DEF level was 108 deg. The DPF was around 240 deg, and the metal heat shield between the DEF tank and the DPF was about 220 deg.

What does this mean? Hell if I know.

 

[Neal]

Regarding heat, I ran a little experiment yesterday. Using my trusty $30 infrared thermometer from Amazon, I measured the temp of the DEF tank after a 45 min run from Richmond to home. Ambient temp was 86 deg at the time.

The DEF tank below the level of the DEF came in at 95 deg. Above the DEF level was 108 deg. The DPF was around 240 deg, and the metal heat shield between the DEF tank and the DPF was about 220 deg.

What does this mean? Hell if I know.

I think temp of the fluid is crucial and not the exterior of the thick plastic tank. I’m not sure of the construction or thickness or insulating value. Maybe insert a hose and draw out some fluid and get the temp of it? Food grade hoses are available on Amazon.

Sealproof Unreinforced PVC 1/4-Inch-ID x 3/8-Inch OD Food Grade Clear Vinyl Tubing, 10 FT, - - Amazon.com

Sealproof Unreinforced PVC 1/4-Inch-ID x 3/8-Inch OD Food Grade Clear Vinyl Tubing, 10 FT, - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[Old-RV'er]

I guess I got confused, my DEF tank is on DS, behind rear wheels (No Tag), forward of the shore power compartment model 3407. My catalytic converter/pollution thing is PS below chassis battery compartment, in that same area is an small walled off storage area, as filled with stuff above. I don't have infrared temp thing, guess that is next on the list. Knowing how warm that compartment gets from the Pollution thing, might be something to know.

DEF Fluid and Temp. Since my Catalytic thing is other side, the only heat generated is most likely coming from transmission area. I don't think I am running much heat into that area. With comment above about level of tank versus heat, I usually on the 250 miles or so trips we are now taking, I might add 1 to 1.5 gallons of def fluid at completion. I filled up from departure location on the way home. The only time I added lots of DEF was when down half and or light came on. Don't know about heat of DEF fluid versus longevity while traveling, something to consider. But while traveling, it's being used and replaced, so new stuff is helping older stuff stay better shape/condition. Long term storage, now that is another can of worms. So far here, only one 90 f day, but early in summer yet.

 

[redbaron]

For those with the refractometer---test with cold, and then heat and test again.

This could be done in your wifes favorite cooking pot while she is shopping for oreo's and ice cream.

 

[turbopilot]

For what it is worth my coach is stored in Thermal, CA. Outside of Death Valley one of the hottest places in the US. I have operated the coach in temperatures up to 122F. So far (since new in 2017) no issues. Rarely let the DEF tank go below 75%. The New Aire after treatment is on the passenger side. DEF storage is on the driver's side in back of the rear wheel and right next to the radiator. During maximum day time desert temperatures the road surface (12" below DEF tank) can exceed 150F.

 

[Neal]

I'm going back to what I said before, self included - the result of this saga is DEF HYSTERIA.

We are not engineers, we are not chemists. People are putting heat shields in, analyzing DEF at various temps, taking temp readings, boxed vs. bulk DEF, using a small portion of your capacity before refilling, the list goes on. The system should work as installed at full capacity of the tank. There is one manufacturer that seems to have a problem with their code in a circuit board for sensing parameters or properly sending the params at the proper intervals. As a result the RV Diesel/DEF world is going crazy. I suggest we all just calm down and use the coaches as we have been for years and be prepared for any problem as we all have to be as these machines are not overly reliable like cars. Any and every part in our "machine" regardless of manufacturer of said part can fail or have a defect. It is what it is. Stats typically tell the real story of any trending failures.

The biggest lessons learned, IMHO, are to have towing service such as Coach-net, understand the limits and what costs could be, understand there are devices that help you should you be in a location without cellular such as a satellite communicator like the garmin inReach, use your DEF however you believe is best for you but be forewarned of said DEF HYSTERIA.

 

[turbopilot]

use your DEF however you believe is best for you but be forewarned of said DEF HYSTERIA.

As you know we are seeing the same thing in the aviation community. What we are dealing with is the helpless feeling of loss of control. The machines are getting so complicated we can't repair them when they break by ourself. Then you layer on the current situation of no spare parts available even for a professional repair and these very expensive toys become paper weights. In aviation community they become hangar queens. With that much money sitting idle people get goofy, me included.

 

[ARD]

For those with the refractometer---test with cold, and then heat and test again.

This could be done in your wifes favorite cooking pot while she is shopping for oreo's and ice cream.

You didn't...

 

[ARD]

With that much money sitting idle people get goofy, me included.

I feel really bad for the truckers. I don't know how some of them are surviving.

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

This DEF problem is not new and has spurred the resourceful truckers to create a subset of Class 8 tractors, Gliders. These are néw trucks that use rebuilt engines and drivetrains from pre-emissions year trucks.
This avoids having to install any DEF or other emission equipment. A very popular option for awhile until the Government limited the number of Gliders that can be sold.

Fitzgerald USA | Trucks, Trailers, Wreckers, and more!

Fitzgerald USA is your one stop truck shop! The Fitzgerald family provides the trucking community with trucks, trailers, wreckers, collision and repair services and more. Having been in the trucking industry for more than 30 years we have the experience and dedication to make sure all of our...

www.fitzgeraldgliderkits.com

 

[Neal]

Anyone have stats, REAL NUMBERS on trucker issues? I don't see DEF going away, I think it has actually been effective for its purpose.

 

[turbopilot]

This DEF problem is not new and has spurred the resourceful truckers to create a subset of Class 8 tractors, Gliders. These are néw trucks that use rebuilt engines and drivetrains from pre-emissions year trucks.
This avoids having to install any DEF or other emission equipment. A very popular option for awhile until the Government limited the number of Gliders that can be sold.

Fitzgerald USA | Trucks, Trailers, Wreckers, and more!

Fitzgerald USA is your one stop truck shop! The Fitzgerald family provides the trucking community with trucks, trailers, wreckers, collision and repair services and more. Having been in the trucking industry for more than 30 years we have the experience and dedication to make sure all of our...

www.fitzgeraldgliderkits.com

During the early years of DEF and DPF in the Ford F550 the bigger problem involved the DPF. Have not seen that issue so far in these diesel pushers. In the F550 running at maximum weight the DPF would load up and not burn out completely limiting useful life to 35,000 to 50,000 miles. Talk about dealing with limp mode, nothing like a constipated DPF to give you a miserable experience with limp mode.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

With the rapid growth (and improvement in technology) of electric vehicles, how long will it be before someone comes up with an EV conversion for motorhomes? No DEF worries there!

The University of Nevada-Reno already has an EV bus conversion on the road.

University of Nevada, Reno's 1996 APS Bus

Somebody’s going to make a bundle of bucks with this. Since I suggested it here, I’m expecting a cut of the action.

TJ

 

[jagpot]

For those with the refractometer---test with cold, and then heat and test again.

This could be done in your wifes favorite cooking pot while she is shopping for oreo's and ice cream.

I'm telling!!!!!!

 

[Old-RV'er]

OFF TOPIC - SORRY - Wow, just read an interesting article about EV Cars, Oregon, charges them an additional registration fee, since they don't fill up as it were. Plus, they are 1000 lbs. heaver than the comparable model powered by fossil fuel. Hence, the tires and brakes wear out quicker, and put more bad particulate material into atmosphere, which is a whole lot worse than the pollutants from a fossil fueled vehicle. There is still something bad in brake pad dust, that is in the air as we travel, keep cabin filters changed often.

Additionally, anyone may design, and build a EV Motorhome, all well and good for those who wants them. However, currently (and has been since I scheduled the Intertie over 37+ years ago), the electrical generation and electrical transmission capacity on the west coast, and also across this land, is woefully inadequate to power a fleet of EV's at a ratio of 25-40% saturation. Crap, CA cannot now nor when I scheduled the energy to ship down to them have enough capacity to power the then and now current electrical usage. Figure it out, EV's are never going to replace conventional powered vehicles, if they penetrate 1-2% of current use, I will be surprised. There will never be enough generation/transmission capacity to adequately power this nation because of two reasons: 1) Money talks and everything else walks; 2) NOT IN MY BACKYARD PERIOD. Today we see, community after community RAIL against a new high end RV park, if they don't want one of those, they sure as heck aint going to allow a 500 acre solar cell farm, or 400 windmills, or a 1000MW generation plant down the road. I rest my case, crap, knowing that the COVID vaccine will prevent, or at least mitigate the virus, our nation is only at 46% vaccinated currently. Give me a break. And Trust me, I love the freedom we have here, and no one is going to tell me what vehicle to buy, etc. Period.