Engine won’t shut off: Part II

[TJ&LadyDi]

Now I know what Alice experienced when she went “Through the Looking-Glass!” And, I understand the full meaning of “You can’t get there from here!”

The problem of the Cummins engine not shutting off is intermittent; we haven’t found any pattern to it. The local shop working on it at the moment says they can’t diagnose the problem unless they have it in failure mode, and it won’t fail for them despite numerous attempts. It has failed just fine for me more than a half-dozen times including yesterday morning here at the RV park.

Spartan took two days to answer the local shop tech’s call for diagnostic help and says all it can do is send some schematics. Newmar says it is either a Spartan or Cummins issue. Cummins says it is a Spartan issue. Spartan says maybe its a Cummins issue. And, the problem continues…intermittently!

Spartan says the emergency shut-off procedure is to use the chassis battery disconnect switch. It worked the first time we tried, but yesterday it didn’t. Spartan says it should always work. The local shop says maybe we need to also use the coach battery disconnect too. Spartan says that’s unnecessary. Cummins says “huh?” Newmar says its either a Spartan or Cummins issue.

We may just have to let it run out of fuel the next time it happens!

Anyone out there ever experienced this kind of an issue? What was the solution?

TJ

 

[FLSteve]

I don’t know the entire history or backstory to this issue but by any chance have you replaced the ignition switch itself? Also just curious if the ignition switch itself is bad would that fall under Newmar or Spartan?

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I don’t know the entire history or backstory to this issue but by any chance have you replaced the ignition switch itself? Also just curious if the ignition switch itself is bad would that fall under Newmar or Spartan?

We have not replaced the ignition switch. As yet, I can’t even get anyone to diagnose the issue. Since the coach is three years old, Newmar is out of the picture as far as warranty. Our Spartan warranty ends tomorrow, though they do have an active case filed. We have two years left on the Cummins engine warranty. And, I’d gladly pay out of my pocket to get this fixed.

I don’t want to start tearing into it myself unless that’s a last resort as both Spartan and Cummins would likely wash their hands of the problem.

TJ

 

[MapNerd]

never experienced anything like this but the ignition switch makes the most immediate sense to me.

The chassis battery switch not working it particularly confounding.

Are you sure Lady Di isn’t standing behind you making diesel engine noises just to mess with you?

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

I mentioned on your other thread that I had had the exact same issue on my previous 08 Fleetwood DP. It didn't have a battery cutoff switch so the only way I could kill the engine was to disconnect the starting battery which shut the fuel supply valve, killing the engine. It happened 4-6 times and I had planned to have it taken care of when we returned home but it never happened again in 5 years and 40,000 miles.

As a note, those of you familiar with the Gafney FTL service center will remember Pat, I called her while on our trip and she said they had it happen to a relatively new coach. They kept the coach for several weeks starting it many times each day and they never duplicated the problem. She was convinced it was a Cummins issue, for what that's worth.

I assure you, as long as I owned the coach, I said a little prayer and held my breath every time I turned the key off.

 

[Old-RV'er]

Hmmm, replacing the ignition switch might be the fix, but, just have them take it out, but leave it hooked up, see if it's arching, lose connections, etc. Having it hanging down will not affect it's function, and then it can be looked over. Great Call forum. Ok, years ago, dad had Chris craft boat, and the switch went bad, he was not mechanically inclined much, but he took it out, went to dealer, and they showed him how to take apart the key part from the switch part, sold him a new switch part, he put the key part back on the switch part and then reinstalled the switch, believe it only had two wires on it, but this is like over 50 years ago.

Today I would take a serious bet, the whole assembly is made in China, very poor quality control, and also very poor manufacturing oversight. It's very possible the switch is going bad, and the contact inside is getting worn, and not working all the time. This is where I would start since you are getting nothing but a run around from the powers that be. I am not sure how many connections are on the back, and don't know if it's also is a two piece unit, i.e., key/switch parts. It's worth looking into since nothing else is showing up, not even codes if I understand this. Spartan and or Newmar would more than likely send you a new unit at no charge just to have the issue resolved.

And, unless nothing else works, I would not take the battery cable loose unless that was all that was left, just giggling the switch does not seem to clear the issue assumed.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I mentioned on your other thread that I had had the exact same issue on my previous 08 Fleetwood DP. It didn't have a battery cutoff switch so the only way I could kill the engine was to disconnect the starting battery which shut the fuel supply valve, killing the engine. It happened 4-6 times and I had planned to have it taken care of when we returned home but it never happened again in 5 years and 40,000 miles.

As a note, those of you familiar with the Gafney FTL service center will remember Pat, I called her while on our trip and she said they had it happen to a relatively new coach. They kept the coach for several weeks starting it many times each day and they never duplicated the problem. She was convinced it was a Cummins issue, for what that's worth.

I assure you, as long as I owned the coach, I said a little prayer and held my breath every time I turned the key off.

I’m a big believer in prayer, Jim, but I’d rather not have to use it to turn the engine off. It has happened to us 6 times in the past month. There’s no discernible pattern. First, I thought it occurred after the coach sat for at least several days. Then, it happened twice in one day. After that, it didn’t happen again for a couple of weeks, during which time the engine had been started and stopped numerous times. And, then it happened again yesterday. Maybe I’m not holding my mouth right when I turn the key off.

TJ

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

I'm trying to remember and thats a stretch, but I think when I turned the key off, some of the dash warning lights came on. FTL had me pulling relays, fuses, etc trying to kill the engine and nothing helped. I did get proficient in removing the battery cable. Like I said in my previous post, it happened those 4-6 times in a period of 2 weeks and never happened again.

 

[Joe Hogan]

My $0.02 ... Can you devise a testing routine to verify which circuits should be live and which should not have power for the next time this happens? Then when the symptoms arise you can perform your testing process to determine faults, if any.

For instance, determine a routine to test the circuits to the key switch (which ones should have power, which ones not), test routine for the shut off solenoid circuits (same), etc. As you work through the potential causes the issue(s) should become somewhat clearer.

Hopefully, the next time it happens you have a plan, and can find a safe location to run through the testing process.

At least this way you can busy yourself without becoming over stressed

 

[Neal]

TJ, is this related to driving? i.e. has it occurred just starting in a camp site then shutting down or is the transmission out of Park? Air brake released? I think in your coach and up they start tying things into the air brake circuit.