Engine won’t shut off: Part II

[Old-RV'er]

Neal excellent point, however, I have not tried to put coach in drive, parking brake off and turned off engine. Guess its something to try. But, in neutral, parking brake engaged, then try to turn off, see what happens.

I also updated post above with story about switch in boat. Please advise once something is found. FWIW-General Motors and some additional car manufacturers a few years ago had a bunch of ignition switch start to cause problems, in fact believe GM was sewed over the problem since NHTSA did not issue recall. The solution was to only have one key on switch because of the weight wearing out the bearings in the switch, you might have one of those bad switches, even if the key is not shaped like GM, it still could have guts of that type. See post above.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

TJ, is this related to driving? i.e. has it occurred just starting in a camp site then shutting down or is the transmission out of Park? Air brake released? I think in your coach and up they start tying things into the air brake circuit.

It seems to happen when I start the coach to air it up prior to bringing in the slides. I let it run for 5-10 minutes and shut it off (or attempt to) inn order to bring in the slides. Intermittently, it won’t shut off at that point. It has taken as little as 2-3 minutes of cycling the key on and off to get the engine to shut off; or as long as 30 minutes. I haven’t had it fail to shut off after the coach has been driven any distance. Hope I haven’t given it any bad ideas in that area now.

Yesterday, it ran for 30 minutes with me periodically cycling the ignition switch on and off. When the tech arrived from Premier RV Services, he tried the switch and…naturally…it shut off on the second try. I’d say that the coach just hates me, but it has happened twice to LadyDi and nobody or nothing could hate her. After I finally got it shut down yesterday, I brought the slides in, restarted the engine and drove the coach about a mile to the Premier shop. It shut off fine upon arrival and the techs started and shut it off at least 20 times successfully during the day without a failure. Go figure!

I have tried releasing the parking brake, putting the transmission in Drive, etc., and then going back into Neutral with the parking brake on, but it still wouldn’t shut down. What I haven’t done…and need to do…is to check and see if the dash gauges stay on when I turn the key off with the engine still running. Sounds like something I would have noticed, but I’ve been too focused on trying to get the thing shut off.

TJ

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

My problem was always after lots of miles. The first time it happened, I was doing my outside stuff and my wife would shut it down after it had finished leveling. I noticed that she hadn't shut the engine off for quite some time. When I went in I asked why she hadn't shut the engine down and she said "I did". Thats when I noticed the lights on like when you first turn the key on and it brings up certain warning lights. I spent almost an hour with FTL on the phone trying all kinds of things to shut it down. I must have turned the key off 50-75 times. That is when they instructed me to remove the battery cable. The same thing happened the next day when we arrived at our next overnight stop. I tried the key a few times before simply removing the cable. It happened another 3 or 4 times and never again.

 

[Old-RV'er]

TJ - Going to assume, you have to do the "leave the campsite" the same as I do. I leave coach plugged into shore power, make sure the Oasis is off both diesel and Elec, antenna down, etc. Then raise leveling jacks, and start coach. As coach is airing up bags/brakes, coach attains ride height, and I then shut down engine. Have never had key not shut down engine. After reading all the posts/comments herein, I really think you got a bad switch. Could it be this simple, well, if everything else has been checked, that is the last thing in the chain. And it will not happen every time, just randomly, because that is the nature of the contacts in the switch. So see if they can change it out, and if that fixes the problem. I also believe, there are more than 3 wires into it, one of which is turn off fuel solenoid, one is kill 12V power to gauges, so if the contacts are bad, the gauges may also not go off, or that contact is good and they do. Regardless, check this out. Now all can laugh at me if turns out not to be issue, but nothing else has shown up the way I read it.

Although not germane to your coach, this freightliner chassis diagram shows the ignition switch, and you will note more than three wires off/in to it. If I am reading it correctly. Maybe this will help you, I'll take beer bet, the switch in spartan and freightliner is either the same or a very close cousin switch for both.

 

[MapNerd]

@TJ&LadyDi do your slide motors not operate when the engine is running? It’s beside the point but I am curious why you would shut the engine down, just to operate the slides. In fact, I find my slide motors seem to work better when the engine is running.

 

[flyboy013]

I just remembered that the fuel filter in the service bay has a shutoff valve that you closed when you are replacing the fuel filter. I suppose rather than letting the coach run out of fuel, you could close the valve.

 

[Old-RV'er]

Slide Operation - The manual for mine and talking to Newmar they said to either have coach plugged into shore power or genset running. I think the slides operate with engine running, but I don't think the alternator puts out enough amps to handle charging all the batteries (they would be low from inverter tapping them for refer upon arrival) so I just always do like Newmar said, genset/shore power, engine off. I have attached all 3 slide out documents I have from Newmar. Some of the information may not be currently as they do reference 1998 and earlier coaches in one of them. Hope this helps.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

@TJ&LadyDi do your slide motors not operate when the engine is running? It’s beside the point but I am curious why you would shut the engine down, just to operate the slides. In fact, I find my slide motors seem to work better when the engine is running.

None of my slides will operate with the ignition switch in the ON position but two of them will operate when it is in the OFF position, even if the engine is running. The third slide (bedroom) will not operate with the engine running, even if the ignition switch is off. Yeah, I know…how does it know the engine is running? Beats me!

That leaves me in the position of needing to shut the engine off…somehow…in order to get the third slide in. I almost drove to the repair shop yesterday with the bedroom slide out, but thought better of it.

TJ

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

TJ - Going to assume, you have to do the "leave the campsite" the same as I do. I leave coach plugged into shore power, make sure the Oasis is off both diesel and Elec, antenna down, etc. Then raise leveling jacks, and start coach. As coach is airing up bags/brakes, coach attains ride height, and I then shut down engine. Have never had key not shut down engine. After reading all the posts/comments herein, I really think you got a bad switch. Could it be this simple, well, if everything else has been checked, that is the last thing in the chain. And it will not happen every time, just randomly, because that is the nature of the contacts in the switch. So see if they can change it out, and if that fixes the problem. I also believe, there are more than 3 wires into it, one of which is turn off fuel solenoid, one is kill 12V power to gauges, so if the contacts are bad, the gauges may also not go off, or that contact is good and they do. Regardless, check this out. Now all can laugh at me if turns out not to be issue, but nothing else has shown up the way I read it.

Although not germane to your coach, this freightliner chassis diagram shows the ignition switch, and you will note more than three wires off/in to it. If I am reading it correctly. Maybe this will help you, I'll take beer bet, the switch in spartan and freightliner is either the same or a very close cousin switch for both.

Spartan did provide me with a schematic of the starter switch (see below) but it really doesn’t help that much.

Personally, I think the problem is either a) the ignition switch or b) the relay that energizes the fuel shut-off valve. It is a fairly major job to dismantle the dash to reach the ignition switch, so until we can find a replacement I’m not willing to go there. I have asked Spartan if they have one available, but have not heard back from they yet. “Slow” seems to be the typical Spartan speed!

TJ

 

[MapNerd]

None of my slides will operate with the ignition switch in the ON position but two of them will operate when it is in the OFF position, even if the engine is running. The third slide (bedroom) will not operate with the engine running, even if the ignition switch is off. Yeah, I know…how does it know the engine is running? Beats me!

That leaves me in the position of needing to shut the engine off…somehow…in order to get the third slide in. I almost drove to the repair shop yesterday with the bedroom slide out, but thought better of it.

TJ

That’s bananas. Newmar should have fixed that