Engine won’t shut off: Part II

[Old-RV'er]

The switch may be the same, the wiring is different spartan versus freightliner. Clearly on my drawing, shows the stop fuel solenoid, the spartan one a tad bit different. Believe it's either as you said, the switch or the relay. Try to get them to send them both, replace switch first, see if that fixes it, then the relay if not. Keep us posted.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

That’s bananas. Newmar should have fixed that

“Should have fixed that” is not in Newmar’s vocabulary!

TJ

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

The switch may be the same, the wiring is different spartan versus freightliner. Clearly on my drawing, shows the stop fuel solenoid, the spartan one a tad bit different. Believe it's either as you said, the switch or the relay. Try to get them to send them both, replace switch first, see if that fixes it, then the relay if not. Keep us posted.

I haven’t even been able to get Spartan to call the techs back on a timely basis much less send me anything. I’m on my own here for buying whatever I need to fix the problem. Shouldn’t be that way, but it is.

TJ

 

[Old-RV'er]

TJ, instead of (assumed) dealing directly with spartan, can you call a spartan dealer. All you want is a switch and relay. I would order both, with understanding one my be returned, (yes pay the restocking fee), or keep it for spare. Now I realize the main customer service is dealing with not only you, but everyone who is having issues, or needing information. You also might get on Newgle and see if a replacement switch is in that parts area/catalog, or even call Newmar parts and see if they have one. Once spare in hand, either fix it yourselves, or have that RV place you are using replace it, keep all paperwork, then you might ask spartan or Newmar to reimburse you because a switch and/or the relay should not have failed within 3 years. I would be nice about it using all the honey I could. And I'm not known for my honey, especially when faced with an issue clearly well outside the normal breakdown arena. I am sure one spartan dealership would have one, and it seems waiting on customer service has not faired well. I have attached the Washington state spartan dealers (text file below) to assist in this. If other states needed let me know. The link is to the national service lookup.

Also, I have not tried to extend or retract my slides with engine running, all my slides are electric, you have mountain Aire, some of those I am assuming are hydraulic, and as such will operate differently. I don't remember if my old coach with all hydraulic slides would go out with engine running or not, just never tried it. Even then, genset or shore power was watchword.

Dealer Locator - Spartan RV Chassis

Find an RV dealer near you who sells motohomes built on a Spartan RV chassis.

www.spartanrvchassis.com

 

[Neal]

Can you ask Spartan or Cummins if they will courtesy/warranty replace the ignition switch and see how things go from there?

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Thanks for the suggestions, folks. The local shop here will do a couple of final checks today based on what the Spartan tech (who finally called back yesterday afternoon) suggested and then we’ll head back to the sticks ‘n bricks in Washington tomorrow.

Once we get home, we’ll find a way to get a replacement ignition switch and relay installed. I don’t hold out much hope for Spartan to provide a “courtesy” anything, so will expect to pay for the parts myself. If they surprise me, that will be a bonus.

TJ

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

UPDATE: just got an e-mail from Spartan regarding a replacement ignition switch. They have them in stock and they are $31.37. I will order one later this morning and will ask about a replacement relay as well. We’ll throw parts at this thing until it decideds to behave itself.

TJ

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

The problem with intermittent problems and replacing parts is twofold. You replace the ignition switch and it will shut the engine down 50 times but on the 51st it doesn't. You then replace the relay or fuel shutoff and hope you don't repeat the 50, 51st scenario. That's why FTL kept telling me unless they can duplicate the problem they can't fix it.

 

[Neal]

The problem with intermittent problems and replacing parts is twofold. You replace the ignition switch and it will shut the engine down 50 times but on the 51st it doesn't. You then replace the relay or fuel shutoff and hope you don't repeat the 50, 51st scenario. That's why FTL kept telling me unless they can duplicate the problem they can't fix it.

Sell it by 45th time and all is good

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

The problem being you never know if its going to be the 3rd time or the 50th or the....

 

[FL-JOE]

UPDATE: just got an e-mail from Spartan regarding a replacement ignition switch. They have them in stock and they are $31.37. I will order one later this morning and will ask about a replacement relay as well. We’ll throw parts at this thing until it decideds to behave itself.

TJ

TJ, several years ago I had a twin diesel inboard boat. It had different diesels than what your Cummins is, but I had an issue with one engine not shutting down. It turned out to be a bad switch that killed the fuel feed to that motor. On those older diesels you not only turned the key off but held a kill switch in to stop the fuel. So I guess what I'm saying is even modern diesels will stop once the fuel is shut off.

I can recall having a "check engine" light come on several times with my 2017 4369. I had it looked at by two different FL/Cummins service centers and one said it was some type of sensor for the DEF being too hot and the other said the code was simply a ghost code and no big deal. When I landed back in Florida with it on again I went to North Trail and they plugged up the computer and immediately said I needed a new DEF tower. Problem solved by an RV dealer......go figure.

 

[CaptainGizmo]

Hey TJ,

Just had a thought... do you have KEYLESS START? I heard a mechanic at Cummins ranting about how problematic those are, and how the mechanics hate them because they are too hard to do "key on/ACC/off" diagnostics.

I'm curious if there's a malfunctioning relay in the KEYLESS system!? Not sure if it's a KIB module, or what, but certainly another possible culprit for you to check.

Steve

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

We just dropped the coach off at Premier RV Services. I handed the keys to the shop foreman and said “it is sitting outside...running.” He laughed and said “So, we finally got it into fault mode where the can check for voltages at diagnostic points.”

Hopefully, they will find the problem.

TJ

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

That is great news, TJ and I'm hoping they can find the cause. I'm not sure but I believe I'm the only poster that's had the same problem as you and I can certainly empathize with you. Until you've walked in my mocassins you don't really understand.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Just got back from talking to the shop foreman. They believe it is a faulty ignition switch since the engine PDM seems to check out OK. Hopefully, they are right! They subsequently started and stopped the engine “15-20 times” and it shut down properly each time. It seems like after the engine runs for a while, the problem goes away…until it doesn’t; usually on the next cold start.

They are trying to find a replacement switch locally, but that looks like a slim possibility. If one is not available, we’ll drive the coach home and order the switch from Spartan. I think it is something I can change out myself.

UPDATE: no ignition switch available locally, so we’ll head home in the morning and hope we don’t have any more issues. I’ll order one this afternoon from Spartan. I’ll probably try to replace it myself if I can get this ol’ body to bend into the pretzel shape needed to access the switch.

They did verify that the emergency shutoff procedure is to use the chassis battery disconnect switches.

So, we’ll head to the sticks n’ bricks in the morning and look forward to getting the AC and ignition switch replaced. When both of those issues have been resolved, we will be back to ground zero.

TJ

 

[Neal]

We just dropped the coach off at Premier RV Services. I handed the keys to the shop foreman and said “it is sitting outside...running.” He laughed and said “So, we finally got it into fault mode where the can check for voltages at diagnostic points.”

Hopefully, they will find the problem.

TJ

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Easy there, big fella!

TJ

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

I don't want to throw water on the situation but with this kind of problem, how will you know it's really fixed?

 

[Old-RV'er]

Well at least it's been identified. And the price is not as bad as I thought it would be. Just remember keep coach power off/chassis power off while changing switch. Ask Lady Di to run the flashlight for you, etc. and keep giving you water. Used to live in Vancouver, and brother, you guys just had the heat. Take care.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I don't want to throw water on the situation but with this kind of problem, how will you know it's really fixed?

If the engine shuts off after a cold start. That will be good enough for us.

TJ