Yet another tire blowout

[Neemer]

@Joe Hogan , not to say I’ve seen them all, but the pics I have seen of blowouts with Rettrobands the tire stays intact.

 

[Scotttkd2]

I appreciate the comments thus far, please keep in mind the shop has not started the investigation, so I am purely guessing based on my limited experience on what role comfort steer did or didn't play. Also I hadn't added yet that I have the Tyron bands (visible in the picture) that are supposed to be a Retro band type product, and they were sold to me by selling dealer as a safety mechanism for blowouts that were "supposed" to make controlling the vehicle possible in a blowout. Mine were a dismal failure in my opinion. Don't know if they just failed, were not installed correctly, etc?? I have seen the Retro Band video of a blowout at speed and the jackhammering at the steering wheel appears to be similar to my experience, but I was definitely not in control of the vehicle direction like the video shows. Also body damage was supposed to be minimized with the Tyron and that definitely didn't happen either. I too wonder about the design/engineering of putting all that flying rubber on any of the wheel wells in such close proximity to virtually unprotected critical components on the coach. I am kicking myself at not having the wire reinforced mud flaps attached around the electronics bay when I had the chance last Oct. I also wonder if the steps and door area would survive a front right blowout at speed.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

I too wonder about the design/engineering of putting all that flying rubber on any of the wheel wells in such close proximity to virtually unprotected critical components on the coach. I am kicking myself at not having the wire reinforced mud flaps attached around the electronics bay when I had the chance last Oct. I also wonder if the steps and door area would survive a front right blowout at speed.

This does seem very highly suspect, almost as if it were planned obsolescence. I can't think of a single auto manufacturer that could get away with such a design yet coach manufacturers wanting 10-15x the money as a car seem to all be playing the same game. I cannot begin to articulate how PO'd I'd be to find such a dismal design after paying $50K+ for a motorhome. Just like houses are built, it seems effort is only made in how things look rather than the quality and function of things not readily visible. I mean, should you really have to invest in mudflaps to protect your coach just because the builders chose not to?

The Tyron bands sound like really, really expensive snake oil. This has all the makings of an NHTSA investigation.

 

[Joe Hogan]

Looks like you might have some recourse against Tryon Band or dealer who installed them or both.

 

[Scotttkd2]

Yeah, I have asked the insurance adjuster to look at the install, the pic looks like the band is installed at a pretty good angle, and the Tyron website shows them installed parallel to the rim. I dont know enough about the technology to know if that could have contributed or hindered anything or not. Just read through the Comfort Steer info elsewhere on the web and it indicates it is fully dependent on electrical power to the system and would have "shut off" and been manual steering if its power had been interrupted. That plus no steering help from the Tyron may be why I was unable to steer it.

 

[Scotttkd2]

BTW, the Comfort Steer info says SafeTPlus type steering stabilizer products are not recommended alongside Comfort Steer installs as they will fight over which system is in control.

 

[Headhunter]

That is definitely something to think about. If a blow out takes out the electronics it also wipes out your comfort steer, making it almost impossible to steer your coach. I remember reading some where that you couldn't put a Safety T Plus system with comfort steer on Newmars.

Hang in there Scott, you did really well in a very dangerous situation. I hope they can get your coach sorted out and put back together.

HH

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Comfort dive being completely dependent on electrical power with some (any at all) of the power wires or controls having been routed where damage and subsequent power disruption is possible if not probable is likely an illegal design. Something else that would never be allowed on the road if produced by any auto manufacturer. I smell two NHTSA investigations now brewing.

 

[Scotttkd2]

Should know some more tomorrow as the shop plans on getting it on a lift, and adjuster will be there but here is what I have been able to research so far. None of the videos/pics of installs of Tyron (or retro band for that matter) show the kind of tire damage or the jackhammering in the steering wheel I experienced. This leads me to think the culprit may be the tire. I was able to verify though the Tyron band had slipped out of position, so it's possible it contributed to the damage/loss of control, and was possibly not installed correctly in the first place. What was left of the tire stayed on the rim so that part may have worked but I had zero sidewall still attached to tread to drive on so no control ability as the videos of both products demonstrate. I will post what I find out. Am still shaking a little after seeing the post of the semi/RV collision on the 81 and how close we came to duplicating that.

 

[Richpatty]

Thanks for the continued updates! I am very interested in what you find out.

 

[Rich W.]

Should know some more tomorrow as the shop plans on getting it on a lift, and adjuster will be there but here is what I have been able to research so far. None of the videos/pics of installs of Tyron (or retro band for that matter) show the kind of tire damage or the jackhammering in the steering wheel I experienced. This leads me to think the culprit may be the tire. I was able to verify though the Tyron band had slipped out of position, so it's possible it contributed to the damage/loss of control, and was possibly not installed correctly in the first place. What was left of the tire stayed on the rim so that part may have worked but I had zero sidewall still attached to tread to drive on so no control ability as the videos of both products demonstrate. I will post what I find out. Am still shaking a little after seeing the post of the semi/RV collision on the 81 and how close we came to duplicating that.

Thanks for the update. I’m going to work on armoring the rear surface (facing the front left tire) of the drivers side front (electrical) bay this week. Given the steel framing that is already there it should be fairly simple and effective. I’ll provide more info as that effort progresses. It seems fairly clear that losing all chassis electrical contributed significantly to you inability to control the coach.

 

[ARD]

I am so glad to hear @Scotttkd2 is okay. My comfort drive went out on me and it was so hard to steer. I don't know how you did it with a blowout. Excellent driving and trusting yourself when it was time to brake.

I have to say, I've been thinking about putting the run flats on my front tires when I go to Spartan in November. The semi and RV accident really shook me up as well. BUT, there is always a but and a what if .... they don't install them correctly. Keep us updated and keep well. Be especially kind to yourself. You've been through something very frightening.

 

[Tnedator]

@Joe Hogan , not to say I’ve seen them all, but the pics I have seen of blowouts with Rettrobands the tire stays intact.

Agreed, I don't think there have been a lot of blowouts yet, but I think I've seen two posted on forums, and both had zero damage beyond the tire, from what I can remember.

 

[Tnedator]

Tyron and Rettroband take two very different approaches. Tyron has a little rim installed inside the wheel, and "if" your tire stays mostly intact, it's supposed to help keep it from sliding all the way to one side of the wheel, therebye delaying the tire coming comletely off.

Rettro is basically a hard rubber wheel inside the tire, which sits higher than the rim of the wheel, so when you have a blowout you drop down on to the rettroband, which still keeps the rim off the road.

Still very little real world examples of Rettro blowouts from what I've seen. I bought them, because right now they seem like the best option out there, but time will tell how well they prove out in the field.

 

[Rich W.]

Yup, not a good day 1 of most recent trip. Currently sitting in Albuquerque NM with RV at a Freightliner shop for the foreseeable future. Driver side steer wheel shredded and took out the electrical bay. No power steering, no dash, no slide controls, no levelers, cant start engine. Wound up partially in the median of I40 with patio side outside dually off the ground. Luckily we didn't roll it, and I had just swapped out the blue ox tow bar that bound up if not perfectly flat for the NSA ready brute that had enough rotational give in the attachment points to release the toad Even at the angle we came to rest at. Recovery tow dude was a miracle worker and managed to get hooked up and drove it into the bottom of the median without rolling rv and himself and was able to get it out. Once Freightliner finishes its repairs it will need to go to a body shop for their work, so we are grounded for a while. Luckily no injuries and didn't cause any accidents as it went from the right lane all the way to the median. TPMS was active, no warnings, and all tire readings were in specs and consistent across the board with the usual running temps and PSI. 19k miles on this one, the front right tire looks perfectly normal and healthy. Scratching my head on why this one would have blown, rear blowouts a year ago were related to Freightliner valve stem recall and I can understand why they went.

OK Scott, you get credit for the inspriation and identification of the problem. Thank you for posting the story, pics, and all the info. I armored the front of the wheel well and since I needed to brace the frame I built for it anyway, I added protection for the bottom of the bay to prevent damage from road hazards. This is 14ga steel so I think it will do the job. It took me around 8 hours over several days because its been hot and I had covid the whole time which didn’t help but this gave me something to do. If I had a real shop and a ready-to-build design, it would take around four hours to do this job. Materials were around $100.

What I had to work with: HWH added a lot of stuff when they installed Active Air and their framing here prevented things from being square and level, but I went with what was there.

My additional framing

The new wheel well piece and the underside protection - 14ga steel, 1 1/2”x 1/8” angle.

Final product. It’s not as clean as I would have liked and I had to give up on square and level, but its done and it will do the job. It also protects the Active Air stuff better.

View from the front with road-hazard protection/bracing in place.

The wheel well piece is 31”x20”. If I were doing it again I’d make my life easier and cut it down to 30.5”x 18”, my hindsight being pretty good. But by the time I figured it out I had Covid and I dont have a power sheer at home, so I went with 31x20.

Also I only welded stuff that wasn’t attached to the coach because I didn’t want to disconnect everything, and I also want it all removable, although I hope I’ll never have to do that. It would get beat up if I had a blow-out but it’s fairly stout and it would protect the nerve center so that works for me.

After Scott‘s experience and that story @Jim posted about the head-on in PA a few days ago (don’t know the details but it was compelling), I decided this is a necessity and perhpas the issue is worth a visit to the NHTSA website. Losing a front tire is bad enough; losing steering too is not an acceptable risk. Before Scott’s original post on this, it never occurred to me that the essential electronics were so vulnerable.

 

[Scotttkd2]

Nice job! I was hoping to have an update but both adjuster and shop are waiting for phone calls back on part numbers and availability for some of the electronics. I got a quote on the chassis side of the repairs and they are replacing the front wheel and tire obviously all other chassis suspension components appear to be ok. The fact they even have it in the shop already was encouraging but I still need to get the body shop involved so right now it's still hurry up and wait! Sure wish now we hadn't Airbnb'd our Prescott Valley home, as we are sitting in another airbnb up the road until ours frees up next month. Murphy's law and all that.

 

[Rich W.]

This is what that bay should look like and I’d like to keep it that way. Scott maybe you’ll find this usefull as you get your rig put back together.

 

[Rich W.]

Hey Scott, I’m looking at other areas in wheel wells to “tire proof” including the top of the drivers side front. Did you get any damage there? Looks like an easy one to improve so I’ll probably do it.

Here’s a shot of the finshed product with a little better perspective:

 

[Scotttkd2]

When I had the idea it was in the aftermath of my rear tire blowout, (that thread is here somewhere with some pics of the damage) that took out my "tool" bay, nearly put a hole in my fresh tank, and destroyed the thin aluminum bay/box behind the tire. It got me thinking if the driver side (which was ready to blow out the valve stem extension within a few hundred more miles ) would have done the same thing I was looking at my def bay (not a good thing to get damaged) and on the other side my entire plumbing bay (also one I wouldn't want to try getting along without. Thus was born the idea to armor up the wheel wells. I saw they had the 1 inch square tubing all around, so I found heavy duty wire reinforced mud flaps on amazon bought them and had the repair shop cut to fit and install on the square tubing. I still believe it is better than nothing and would give the shredding rubber something to beat on besides the light gauge aluminum and the cheap particle board they used to construct these things with while I am getting the RV to the side of the road and stopped. Unfortunately it didn't occur to me to have the fronts done, as I had the Tyron installed which was supposed to prevent the issue. Live and learn. I am already ordering more and have my repair guy standing by to fit them up on the fronts if I cant get the shop to do it. Glad to hear my experience has prompted someone to be pro active and hopefully avoid a disaster of their own. That's what these forums are for in my opinion. BTW I can hardly watch the video of the I81 wreck in the median. By the grace of God and my guardian angel working overtime on a Sunday that wasn't me and my wife.

 

[Scotttkd2]

Sorry, I missed your question, for some reason the top did not sustain any damage in either blowout. On the rear the top pealed back the rubber membrane, but did no damage to the wood/steel underneath that.