Resolved Broken down in Breckenridge....

[Rich W.]

Is this just a Freightliner procedure ... or does/will it work on Spartan as well?

FLSteve

I would expect differences since the emissions system controls on a Spartan chassis are different. But check under the dash next to the j1939 port and see if you have that plug. I found the diagram a little vague but the acutal plug is labeled and obvious (see pic). If you have that then the process should be the same.

 

[Neal]

I found a mechanic in the next town over (Peak to Peak Truck Service), I'm not sure why Coach-net didn't find them. While this saga is ongoing it's proven there is value in finding your own service center or being knowledgeable in the process.

Tech will be here between 9 and 10 AM Mountain time to clear codes and perform a regen. Yeah, there may be more to this saga but for now that's the first step as noted above.

When this is done, the question that begs to be asked, should we do a manual regen at some interval of time, such as every 6 months, a year, etc. as preventative maintenance? I realize this is supposed to be automated but when you're traveling to remote destinations, what precautions should you take.

@Rich W. I believe not only are you having to buy physical devices but you're having to pay an annual subscription? I'm still not sure it's something I want to invest in as (knock on wood) I've been problem free for 5-6 years now.

 

[Rich W.]

Yes OTR is an annual subscription of $600 which is suboptimal in my opinion, but its a good product. Its nice to have found something that works with all the other stuff out there. Insite is subscription based as well but much more expensive and beyond my needs/capabilities.

Also the OTR folks advise monthly parked regens as a maintenance item. They also have blogs that are often helpful and tech support, so its not just a device and app. The OTR app also has a comprehensive library of codes so you don’t have to research them, and then an additional page for each code with maintenance and/or repair instructions consistent with professional tech stuff such as Insite.

I was a beta tester on their last upgrade and had a some of suggestions, some of which they have incorporated into the program (they continue to refine and update) including I am told, the ability to use the app without an internet connection. So if that works (I haven't tested it) that would be resolve my main issue with it.

 

[Tnedator]

I don't have any code reader/resetter for my coach, and now I'm wondering if I need to. Is that the only way to do a manual regen? I know when they changed my def head the mobile tech hooked up a laptop, and I "think" kickeed off a regen.

 

[Rich W.]

I don't have any code reader/resetter for my coach, and now I'm wondering if I need to. Is that the only way to do a manual regen? I know when they changed my def head the mobile tech hooked up a laptop, and I "think" kickeed off a regen.

Look at the posts above for a link to performing a manual/forced/parked regen for Freightliner coaches. Also a regen will do nothing for DEF system related problems as regens occur in the DPF which is physically AFTER the SCR where the DEF magic happens.

Parked regens are a way to keep your DPF clean, delay having it removed and baked, and get the most life possible out it before replacement. You should be ablle to go well over 100k miles before DPF service or replacement with routine regens.

And yes I think anyone driving a motorhome equipped with a DOC/SCR (DEF)/DPF system should have code reading/clearing capability, and perform routine regens. I’ll stay off my soap box here, but suffice it to say that these systems are fragile and fraught with failures that can easily leave you stranded, and something beyond a simple code reader is necessary to get you going again.

 

[Neal]

Actually it's not the same for FL coaches, mine is older and has the shorting connector, newer ones I believe are done differently and possibly via the dash. @Tnedator has Spartan.

 

[Rich W.]

Actually it's not the same for FL coaches, mine is older and has the shorting connector, newer ones I believe are done differently and possibly via the dash. @Tnedator has Spartan.

Yes and trucks have a switch on the dash allowing easy, quick, efficient regens. I guess they think motorhome operators aren’t qualified for such controls. I also wouldn't be surprised if the new digital dash in FL coaches provides a different means of performing regens.

I have no idea how Spartan has addressed this over the years and/or is facilitating it currently. It would be interesting to hear from some Spartan chassis owners new and old (2010 to current) on this.

However they are all using Cummins engines and emission systems. The differences are in the chassis mounted controls which seem to be primarly how DEF is handled (tank, DEF header, and pump) because the rest is supplied by Cummins (DOC, SCR including doser, and DPF). So for code reading and clearing, and running regens with an external adjunct, they are all more or less the same - ie, the same after-market devices will work for either.

 

[Tnedator]

Look at the posts above for a link to performing a manual/forced/parked regen for Freightliner coaches. Also a regen will do nothing for DEF system related problems as regens occur in the DPF which is physically AFTER the SCR where the DEF magic happens.

Parked regens are a way to keep your DPF clean, delay having it removed and baked, and get the most life possible out it before replacement. You should be ablle to go well over 100k miles before DPF service or replacement with routine regens.

And yes I think anyone driving a motorhome equipped with a DOC/SCR (DEF)/DPF system should have code reading/clearing capability, and perform routine regens. I’ll stay off my soap box here, but suffice it to say that these systems are fragile and fraught with failures that can easily leave you stranded, and something beyond a simple code reader is necessary to get you going again.

I'll dig in and see what's needed for a Spartan.

RE: Def, I don't know why, but I believe the techs run a regen after replacing the def head.

Anyway, back to Neil's adventure (hoping I never have one on a trip).

 

[Rich W.]

I'll dig in and see what's needed for a Spartan.

RE: Def, I don't know why, but I believe the techs run a regen after replacing the def head.

Yes they do, although why I don’t know why either. Maybe GP, or as a general system health thing, rule-out, maintenance….?

Anyway it will be interesting to hear about the Spartan system (maybe a separate thread in the Cummins forum) and hopefully a visit from a traveling tech will get Neal back on the road with specific info as to why this happend, if it will happen again, and what to do to prevent it.

I don’t mean to hi-jack this thread, but it does point out that all this emissions stuff can leave you stranded and the more you know about it the better. Maybe an emissions forum is in order….

 

[J&JD]

Maybe an emissions forum is in order….

Please start one beginning with a list of parts needed and where to obtain them to build the DEF sensors bypass unit. That would really be appreciated. I think many of us procrastinators are ready to make one.

Now, back to @Neal’s predicament……

 

[FloridaSon]

Freightliner procedure, can’t speak for Spartan.

 

[flarider]

Back in March a few hours after leaving the Mothership I stopped to fuel up. When I started up again I got a DPF error Source 0, SPN 3720 FMI 15 but when I started driving it went away. I figured it was from all the start and stopping going into the service bays and after a few regens it would go away, My 2018 DSDP on Spartan does regens all the time, Spartan said it was nothing to worry about. In May I was at NIRVC in Atlanta and had them look at it. They said they couldn't reproduce it but it happens almost every time you start the engine and goes away when you move or give it some RPMs. They also said they couldn't do anything because their autoclave machine was down. You would have thought they would have cleared the codes but they didn't and they were short staffed and wanted me out of there. I probably would have had to spend another day there just for that. So that was 6 months ago and about 6,000+ miles.

 

[Rich W.]

Neal how did it go today? Any progress?

This wont help much but at least it will verify some things and you’ll know you're not alone:

Diesel Particulate Filter Shutdown - The Good, The Bad and the RV

We got shut down on the side of the road due to our Diesel Particulate Filter causing a "Stop Engine" situation. Six hours and a little over $1500

thegoodthebadandtherv.com

 

[Neal]

Thanks all for those that asked via text, and above. I just arrived at Pagosa Springs with the last hour of this drive after dark, thankful for the nearly full moon but I knew 3 hours prior to arrival I should have stopped somewhere and come here tomorrow. But here is how today went:

• Very grateful the Peak to Peak Truck Repair guy came to me nearly first thing today. Sadly I woke him up at 5:30 AM as their service says 24/7 and I couldn't sleep so I figured I'd put in a call. He said call him at 8 so I did, he arrived at 9:30
• He was a little beaten down, short staffed like everyone and overloaded and mentioned he shouldn't even be here, people have been waiting days for service, but he settled in and got to work and I'm thankful for that
• He connected his laptop and saw the high soot situation. There are FIVE phases of soot level, 1 to 5 (maybe 6 if it's 0 to 5) and I was a 5, fully clogged. He said likely a regen would not fix this and that the dpf filter would need to be removed and replaced or cleaned by baking in a ceramic oven, assuming that meant high heat. But he said let's give it a try
• He had to essentially reset the maintenance system in my coach to get a regen to start and it did and happily the black indicator started working it's way shading towards white meaning clean. It took over an hour.
• He then cleared the codes (again?) and all checked good. Hallelujah!
• He departed, bill was $321 - no big deal and Coach-net pays it. He mentioned towing is a very bad thing for RV's you really want to avoid it and I knew that, it was going to open a can of worms.
• I cranked to move the coach so I could connect the toad and the ABS light was on. I also noticed the steering wheel was very stiff as it felt comfort drive was messed up. In the end comfort drive just needed to reset itself and I called him regarding the ABS, we weren't really sure but he guessed once the wheels turned the sensor would pick up and it did, the ABS light went out.
• I hooked up and was going to head direct Pagosa Springs as he said he is confident in the fix, the system showed clean DPF. I pulled out of the parking lot on my way and sure enough I get the same indicator as yesterday leaving Tiger Run. It was the regen warning light for hot area around aftertreatment, I knew this could be a potential ticking time bomb and if I didn't dive for the forced regen it would give me a red stop engine light again and I knew he wasn't coming back, it would have to be towed. I was approaching Walmart so ducked into their parking lot, sadly no place for RV's but found a safe spot and immediately forced the regen which it worked as the RPM went up, and after 20 minutes it completed and all lights were out.
• At this time had put in a call to TransWest where this tech told me it should go and they said yes, bring it in, they're ready which is great (that's in Denver).
• I put their address in my GPS and headed their way, I figured at least I'd cut down tow distance. With construction and then a tunnel I was just waiting for a terrible situation but it never happened.
• I then figured Pagosa Springs was going to be too late showing a 7-8'ish arrival so I put in Cherry Creek State Park in Aurora, CO in the GPS and headed that way. I then was feeling good energy so turned south on I-25 and figured at least get to C Springs, then Pueblo, then decided after a fuel/dinner stop to continue on. While it worked out I shouldn't have gone the full way, but I'm here.

In talking with the tech he did recommend frequent manual regens, it can't hurt. We also discussed the higher altitude and how regens may not be as effective higher up as there is a trend of problems like this at higher elevations. I will have to ask FL during my service if there is a way to find out if my system is in fact auto-regen'ing and if that's not working it could contribute. But anyways I learned a valuable lesson:

IF YOU'VE NEVER FORCED A REGEN - YOU SHOULD DO SO!! It is a good procedure to learn, each coach is different, and you can't harm anything by doing it but you can certainly be setup for harm by NOT doing it. I will be doing it coming out storage and when I feel the time is opportune. Again, it doesn't hurt to do it and it just helps clean the system. If you get in a high soot situation you also risk damaging other (high dollar) items such as the SCR which is after the aftertreatment. Obviously when you do forced regens you should be at ride height to give best separation from the ground for the high heat and do not do it over dried grass or leaves that could catch fire. Know that it can take 20-60+ minutes to complete.

As to the light that came on when I left the parking lot, it could have been indicating temps were still high from the tech's hour long regen, I don't know. But it didn't hurt for me to do the forced regen. The tech did interrupt his after an hour and did not let it complete itself, that could have been an issue as well. Maybe the system needed to get a completion signal?

To those that do the techie data mining of the emissions system such your iPad presentations or whatever. IF YOU CAN READ THE SOOT PHASE that would be gold nugget data to know. If you can find your soot level reading (1 thru 5) that would be valuable to know your need for a regen or not.

Thanks all for the help. I'm very lucky to have gotten through this without a tow and higher service fees. I continue to learn, 5+ years into RVing and I never messed with regens. Now I will.

 

[Rich W.]

Thanks for the thorough report and update. And also for noting that I had the order of DPF and SCR backwards. I have diagrams showing the components and how the system is designed and I’ve replaced the differential pressure sensor on my DPF, but I guess its been a while since I looked at it - my poor feeble mind….

Anyway OTR shows soot level in the DPF as a %, and apparently it can go as high as 130%, whatever that means. I’ll ask OTR about the five levels - maybe thats an Insite thing. And I’ll also see how the Diesel Laptops handheld unit reads it.

Glad you’re back on the road with a minimum if expense and no tow - Thats total success!

 

[Neemer]

$350 sounds like a bargain to me. Good luck onward.

 

[FloridaSon]

Excellent report, glad you found out this info, helps us all.

RE: Forced Regen - do you feel the toad should be disconnected or is there enough separation to dissipate the heat?

Happy you are on the move again Neal, well done.

 

[NWIP]

First glad @Neal your on the move again.

I have a Spartan and was told that you can’t do a forced regen without specific equipment, ie computer/software.
I am arriving at Spartan in Charlotte, MI today and will discuss things more with them. I have a check engine light with key on which will go out after about 20-30 seconds. I have driven approximately 4000 miles this way as it is considered an inactive message from a previous incident and will be reset by Spartan.

Additional note, I run BlueFire which will clear some active faults but not inactive faults.

 

[FLSteve]

@Neal ... thanks for the update. Glad you are at the next stop now. Did you wind up stopping at TransWest? If so, what did they do there?

FLSteve

 

[redbaron]

This tool will do a forced regen on either chassis as well as read and reset most codes. It's not a replacement for OTR, but cheap enough that every coach owner should have it and know how to use it. Ebay sells it for under $140.00.

Amazon has it for under $200

You must get the plus version for forced regen and other emissions reset.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0739WS69C/?tag=rvf01-20