Engine won’t shut off: Part II

[FL-JOE]

UPDATE: just got an e-mail from Spartan regarding a replacement ignition switch. They have them in stock and they are $31.37. I will order one later this morning and will ask about a replacement relay as well. We’ll throw parts at this thing until it decideds to behave itself.

TJ

TJ, several years ago I had a twin diesel inboard boat. It had different diesels than what your Cummins is, but I had an issue with one engine not shutting down. It turned out to be a bad switch that killed the fuel feed to that motor. On those older diesels you not only turned the key off but held a kill switch in to stop the fuel. So I guess what I'm saying is even modern diesels will stop once the fuel is shut off.

I can recall having a "check engine" light come on several times with my 2017 4369. I had it looked at by two different FL/Cummins service centers and one said it was some type of sensor for the DEF being too hot and the other said the code was simply a ghost code and no big deal. When I landed back in Florida with it on again I went to North Trail and they plugged up the computer and immediately said I needed a new DEF tower. Problem solved by an RV dealer......go figure.

 

[CaptainGizmo]

Hey TJ,

Just had a thought... do you have KEYLESS START? I heard a mechanic at Cummins ranting about how problematic those are, and how the mechanics hate them because they are too hard to do "key on/ACC/off" diagnostics.

I'm curious if there's a malfunctioning relay in the KEYLESS system!? Not sure if it's a KIB module, or what, but certainly another possible culprit for you to check.

Steve

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

We just dropped the coach off at Premier RV Services. I handed the keys to the shop foreman and said “it is sitting outside...running.” He laughed and said “So, we finally got it into fault mode where the can check for voltages at diagnostic points.”

Hopefully, they will find the problem.

TJ

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

That is great news, TJ and I'm hoping they can find the cause. I'm not sure but I believe I'm the only poster that's had the same problem as you and I can certainly empathize with you. Until you've walked in my mocassins you don't really understand.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Just got back from talking to the shop foreman. They believe it is a faulty ignition switch since the engine PDM seems to check out OK. Hopefully, they are right! They subsequently started and stopped the engine “15-20 times” and it shut down properly each time. It seems like after the engine runs for a while, the problem goes away…until it doesn’t; usually on the next cold start.

They are trying to find a replacement switch locally, but that looks like a slim possibility. If one is not available, we’ll drive the coach home and order the switch from Spartan. I think it is something I can change out myself.

UPDATE: no ignition switch available locally, so we’ll head home in the morning and hope we don’t have any more issues. I’ll order one this afternoon from Spartan. I’ll probably try to replace it myself if I can get this ol’ body to bend into the pretzel shape needed to access the switch.

They did verify that the emergency shutoff procedure is to use the chassis battery disconnect switches.

So, we’ll head to the sticks n’ bricks in the morning and look forward to getting the AC and ignition switch replaced. When both of those issues have been resolved, we will be back to ground zero.

TJ

 

[Neal]

We just dropped the coach off at Premier RV Services. I handed the keys to the shop foreman and said “it is sitting outside...running.” He laughed and said “So, we finally got it into fault mode where the can check for voltages at diagnostic points.”

Hopefully, they will find the problem.

TJ

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Easy there, big fella!

TJ

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

I don't want to throw water on the situation but with this kind of problem, how will you know it's really fixed?

 

[Old-RV'er]

Well at least it's been identified. And the price is not as bad as I thought it would be. Just remember keep coach power off/chassis power off while changing switch. Ask Lady Di to run the flashlight for you, etc. and keep giving you water. Used to live in Vancouver, and brother, you guys just had the heat. Take care.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I don't want to throw water on the situation but with this kind of problem, how will you know it's really fixed?

If the engine shuts off after a cold start. That will be good enough for us.

TJ

 

[jagpot]

TJ, several years ago I had a twin diesel inboard boat. It had different diesels than what your Cummins is, but I had an issue with one engine not shutting down. It turned out to be a bad switch that killed the fuel feed to that motor. On those older diesels you not only turned the key off but held a kill switch in to stop the fuel. So I guess what I'm saying is even modern diesels will stop once the fuel is shut off.

I can recall having a "check engine" light come on several times with my 2017 4369. I had it looked at by two different FL/Cummins service centers and one said it was some type of sensor for the DEF being too hot and the other said the code was simply a ghost code and no big deal. When I landed back in Florida with it on again I went to North Trail and they plugged up the computer and immediately said I needed a new DEF tower. Problem solved by an RV dealer......go figure.

Is a DEF tower the same as a DEF head. Hope not. because I have the issues you had mentioned and after they take care of some nox valve they are going to delve into the DEF issue.

TJ, several years ago I had a twin diesel inboard boat. It had different diesels than what your Cummins is, but I had an issue with one engine not shutting down. It turned out to be a bad switch that killed the fuel feed to that motor. On those older diesels you not only turned the key off but held a kill switch in to stop the fuel. So I guess what I'm saying is even modern diesels will stop once the fuel is shut off.

I can recall having a "check engine" light come on several times with my 2017 4369. I had it looked at by two different FL/Cummins service centers and one said it was some type of sensor for the DEF being too hot and the other said the code was simply a ghost code and no big deal. When I landed back in Florida with it on again I went to North Trail and they plugged up the computer and immediately said I needed a new DEF tower. Problem solved by an RV dealer......go figure.

 

[Nereus]

That’s bananas. Newmar should have fixed that

None of my slides will operate with the ignition switch in the ON position but two of them will operate when it is in the OFF position, even if the engine is running. The third slide (bedroom) will not operate with the engine running, even if the ignition switch is off. Yeah, I know…how does it know the engine is running? Beats me!

That leaves me in the position of needing to shut the engine off…somehow…in order to get the third slide in. I almost drove to the repair shop yesterday with the bedroom slide out, but thought better of it.

T

On my 2018 DS, the kitchen slide will retract with the engine running. The other two, the ignition key needs to be turned off in order to retract. The ignition key must be turned off to extend any of the slides. Discussed this with Newmar a few months ago while at the factory for new windows and they told me that it was designed that way for safety. We went round and round about the 2019 and above and they told me the interloc was placed on the parking break for those models. I couldn't convince them to reconfigure mine - that said, there is a work around.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

I would put in a jumper with switch to shut the fuel solenoid down. Being cleaver I would have my multi meter handy so the next time it happened I would see if power is still present at that solenoid. if it is not I would replace the solenoid. If I found power to the solenoid I would look for power on the relay coil, no power replace the relay. If there was power at the relay coil I would look for a computer issue, however with power turned off at the computer I would look to the key switch.

Now that said I don't even know if there is a solenoid, it may be the electric fuel pump. Or maybe something related to the injectors. I understand That modern diesels are not the reliable heavy weights of the past, that's why the old Ford trucks with the older generation of diesels are being rebuilt rather than discarded at the bone yards. another trick I might try is a switch on the computer power line so I could turn it off via computer. Funny thing about ECM units is if the problem is not in the system it won't spit out codes.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

On my 2018 DS, the kitchen slide will retract with the engine running. The other two, the ignition key needs to be turned off in order to retract. The ignition key must be turned off to extend any of the slides. Discussed this with Newmar a few months ago while at the factory for new windows and they told me that it was designed that way for safety. We went round and round about the 2019 and above and they told me the interloc was placed on the parking break for those models. I couldn't convince them to reconfigure mine - that said, there is a work around.

There doesn’t seem to be any commonality. On ours, the FWS and the kitchen slide will come in as long as the ignition switch is in the off position. The bedroom slide, however, will not; even with the ignition switch in the off position as long at the engine is running. Therein lies the rub with our current problem of the engine continue to run while the key is in the off position.

TJ

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I ordered the replacement ignition switch today from Spartan. It was reasonably priced (I thought) at $31.37. I did get a shock, however, when I viewed the charge to my credit card; $65 and change. I called for an explanation and was told that’s what UPS charges for its normal “ground” shipping for a small package. Yikes, shipping rates sure have gone up!!!

TJ