Alert Girard Awning Mounts WRONG!!

[FLSteve]

@CaptainGizmo @redbaron - Well I finally got the nerve to climb up and check mine ... guess I was just afraid of what I might find. Fortunately all my brackets are in the proper configuration, however the bolts are loose on the very back bracket of the rear awning. I will just keep that one in until I can get to a location and have time to fix it. All the bolts look like maybe 1/4" lag bolts ... any idea what they screw into under the roof. They look like they are pulling out, not coming unscrewed.

Thanks again for posting about this issue ... would of never caught it without you doing this.

FLSteve

 

[MapNerd]

Well I got on the roof today and my little heart sank as I peaked over the rear cap at the 11" small mount bracket of the aft awning and saw approximately 30" to the left of it, the faint remnants of a sticker. I muttered a choice word, climbed back down, grabbed the measuring tape and my phone and got to work.

I measured the full length of the front awning, which came in at 215 3/4" - Just a quarter inch under 18'.

Then I measured where the 11" small bracket for the forward awning was located, the mid-point of the bracket came in dead center at 108" or 9' - which we know is incorrect.

Next, I located the sticker that indicates where the bracket is supposed to be located and measured where that fell - 79" which is just over 1/3 of the way down the awning, which is correct according to the install instructions @CaptainGizmo posted.

I then did the same with the rear awning.

• Full length: 220 1/2"
• 11" small mount bracket midpoint: 110 1/2" (slightly off mid-center by 1/4")
• Sticker location: 81 1/4"

I'm still under 1-year warranty so it'll be interesting to see how they decide to handle this with me standing mask to mask with them at the service center on 8/31. I don't think I'll be letting them get away with 'What we're gonna do is saw into your one piece roof, move the bracket, do a fiberglass patch and slather some dicor on it and call it a day". I didn't pay $15k for awnings and who knows how much for a one piece roof for them to cut into it 10 months later because they couldn't be bothered to read the directions or train someone properly before handing them a drill and telling them to put those awnings on.

While I'm not currently showing signs of fatigue as I also don't operate the awnings if the breeze is strong enough to blow a piece of paper off a table (that's literally how I gauge whether or not to put the awnings in), I am concerned about damage to the awnings themselves due to them being mounted improperly - especially if that damage occurs after my warranty lapses. Other than the chassis components, those awnings are probably the next biggest thing I constantly watch, monitor and hope they don't break.

@CaptainGizmo do you have a contact at Girard that can attest to these being installed improperly and the consequences of that? Who were you working with there? There may be an awkward impromptu conference call that gets dialed up if they try to give me the run around.

Tips for dealing with Newmar welcome. Looks like I might be the first one to really go round the wagon with them on this.

 

[flarider]

I had the samething happen to my 2018 DSDP. I brought to Newmar attention in March 2020, and this it the reply I got back from them. At the time I had 3 bolts that did not grab into anything. I asked if that made changes to newer models to have a thinker backer material since the bolts only went into the fiberglass and about 1/4" plywood. I ended up putting a larger lag bolts.

Newmar runs an aluminum backer plate under the roof material the complete length of the coach to help hold the lag bolts for the brackets. Most likely what has happened with your coach (I think the picture you sent confirms this), is that the installer obviously missed the backer during install. Rather than following the previous directions you were given, I would recommend that you add a lag a few inches closer to the edge of the coach in order to reach the intended backer.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

While I do understand your angst, I'm wondering what an acceptable solution would be for you. It doesn't sound like repairing the defect by cutting into the roof and moving the internal bracket structure would be acceptable. That doesn't leave much room to work with. I seriously doubt that Newmar is going to roll out another 2020 Ventana with the awning properly mounted. I suppose that would be an ideal resolution, but I don't think that will be on the table.

My point here is that before you get to Nappanee, you need to carefully consider a workable mid-point solution between some fiberglass repair and replacement of the coach. In cases like this, I have found that demanding something that won't happen just complicates any possible resolution. Same with a confrontational approach. That usually just raises the temperature on both sides.

I think you would be best served in the long run by first asking how they propose to resolve the issue. Be prepared to ask questions and put some reasonable restrictions on what you will accept, but keep reality in focus. It is quite likely that Newmar has resolved other similar issues that involved relocating internal structural components and affecting an acceptable repair. Listen carefully to their suggestions and discuss your concerns fully, but calmly. I'm guessing you will be able to arrive at a workable solution in the end.

We've had a small amount of fiberglass and paint repair done by Newmar and I am pretty much of a perfectionist. The work that they did was excellent and the knowledge, concern for quality and caring customer service attitude of the techs was amazing. Give them chance to do what they do best; try to make the customer happy.

TJ

 

[MapNerd]

I had the samething happen to my 2018 DSDP. I brought to Newmar attention in March 2020, and this it the reply I got back from them. At the time I had 3 bolts that did not grab into anything. I asked if that made changes to newer models to have a thinker backer material since the bolts only went into the fiberglass and about 1/4" plywood. I ended up putting a larger lag bolts.

Newmar runs an aluminum backer plate under the roof material the complete length of the coach to help hold the lag bolts for the brackets. Most likely what has happened with your coach (I think the picture you sent confirms this), is that the installer obviously missed the backer during install. Rather than following the previous directions you were given, I would recommend that you add a lag a few inches closer to the edge of the coach in order to reach the intended backer.

That does not change the fact that the way Newmar is installing this, with the bracket in the middle of the awning, they are voiding the Girard warranty. As @CaptainGizmo posted earlier, page 13 of the installation manual explicitly states:

"The location of the middle bracket must fall directly centered behind the shoulder of the middle arm. Failure to follow these instructions will void the warranty of this product."​

 

[MapNerd]

While I do understand your angst, I'm wondering what an acceptable solution would be for you. It doesn't sound like repairing the defect by cutting into the roof and moving the internal bracket structure would be acceptable. That doesn't leave much room to work with. I seriously doubt that Newmar is going to roll out another 2020 Ventana with the awning properly mounted. I suppose that would be an ideal resolution, but I don't think that will be on the table.

My point here is that before you get to Nappanee, you need to carefully consider a workable mid-point solution between some fiberglass repair and replacement of the coach. In cases like this, I have found that demanding something that won't happen just complicates any possible resolution. Same with a confrontational approach. That usually just raises the temperature on both sides.

I think you would be best served in the long run by first asking how they propose to resolve the issue. Be prepared to ask questions and put some reasonable restrictions on what you will accept, but keep reality in focus. It is quite likely that Newmar has resolved other similar issues that involved relocating internal structural components and affecting an acceptable repair. Listen carefully to their suggestions and discuss your concerns fully, but calmly. I'm guessing you will be able to arrive at a workable solution in the end.

We've had a small amount of fiberglass and paint repair done by Newmar and I am pretty much of a perfectionist. The work that they did was excellent and the knowledge, concern for quality and caring customer service attitude of the techs was amazing. Give them chance to do what they do best; try to make the customer happy.

TJ

That's good counsel @TJ. I very much appreciate it. I'm certainly a little irked by it but I don't plan to go in there making demands. I am drafting an email to have it added to my punch list. When I arrive, I plan to ask my team lead what the proposed fix is for this issue (and other, much smaller ailments). My knee jerk thought when I realized I was impacted by this was that I think Newmar needs to remove both awnings, take them apart and check the components for damage, warping, bending as there may be internal damage already that I'm unaware of. After that, depending on how they support that bracket, that determines what the appropriate remedy is for correcting its location.

If @flarider is correct and Newmar runs an aluminum backer the full length of the coach - then this is a simple fix. Unscrew the bracket, put it in the proper location, reinstall the awnings with repaired components if necessary, put some decor over the old screw holes and we're done.

However, if its a small metal plate that is only located in that one spot where the bracket is, then that's a bigger problem and I'm honestly going to expect them to remove the roof and put the support plate where it needs to be, then put the roof back on. It's a longer job, but they replace roofs at the service center. No reason they can't pop mine off to fix their own mistake.

To me, there's a big difference between dicoring some screw holes and dicoring the seams of an 11" x 4" hole in your roof with a fiberglass patch sitting on top of it. I feel the latter is more likely to fail in the future. The seams will move as the two planes will not be attached in any way, shape or form other than that dicor. As we all know, moisture is an RV's kryptonite and introducing avenues for its entry into your roof and sidewalls is rarely a good idea.

I certainly don't expect them to roll out a 2020 Ventana for me. The production floor should be well through punching out the 2021's by now so I’ll take one of those - probably to find it has the same defect

There are other ways to handle this too that I can think of:

• Put in writing, if/when they break, Newmar will replace em for free
• Here's your money back for your awnings - if/when they break, go visit Girard and let them install em.

Being reasonable is a two-way street and I'm sure we'll be able to find a solution. Hopefully, they recognize the issue immediately and I don't have to debate the merits of a proper installation with them, that's really my biggest concern.

 

[CaptainGizmo]

@CaptainGizmo do you have a contact at Girard that can attest to these being installed improperly and the consequences of that? Who were you working with there? There may be an awkward impromptu conference call that gets dialed up if they try to give me the run around.

Tips for dealing with Newmar welcome. Looks like I might be the first one to really go round the wagon with them on this.

No need for a Girard contact, Chuck is the lead at the service center and the Owner, himself, knows all about the problem.

as for Newmar, go easy. They‘ve been made aware of this problem and are cooperating very well. I’d love to have them do the work, but another trip from California is hard; considering we just got back from our second visit to them.

 

[CaptainGizmo]

Newmar runs an aluminum backer plate under the roof material the complete length of the coach to help hold the lag bolts for the brackets. Most likely what has happened with your coach (I think the picture you sent confirms this), is that the installer obviously missed the backer during install. Rather than following the previous directions you were given, I would recommend that you add a lag a few inches closer to the edge of the coach in order to reach the intended backer.

Thanks for this information, but 100% verification would be SO IMPORTANT to know ahead of cutting into my roof, only to find out that we didn’t need to!

I intend to press Newmar for absolute verification and will circle back after I find out.

 

[FLSteve]

If anybody gets lucky and comes up with a picture, drawing, sketch or anything that shows what the aluminum backer plate looks like when installed please post it.

 

[MapNerd]

Will ask my tech for a picture of it if my repair process involves exposing it. Otherwise, I’ll see if I can get em to sketch it.