OTR Diagnostics, DEF, Derate Faults

[MapNerd]

When fueling do not shut your engine off. I actually did this my last few legs mainly to keep A/C going as it was so hot. I think with the SP/Shaw issues if I was on a SP I'd limit my engine cycles.

I have never turned my engine off when fueling as I’d read somewhere that it’s not good for the engine.

 

[ARD]

When fueling do not shut your engine off. I actually did this my last few legs mainly to keep A/C going as it was so hot. I think with the SP/Shaw issues if I was on a SP I'd limit my engine cycles.

This is true for anyone experiencing the DEF faults with check engine alarm. The more you cycle the engine, the closer you come to derating. See my post #6.

 

[MapNerd]

It occurs to me that they may be learning the same lesson automakers learned with chip supplies. Companies have optimized their logistics in favor of JIT delivery, keeping very little excess supply of parts sitting on the shelves. Automakers misjudged the impact that the pandemic would have on their industry, reducing their output and canceling orders only to find that when the opposite of their expectations happened (demand for new vehicles increased because people wanted to get out) they could not simply turn the faucet supply of chips back on.

Spartan likely did not cut their supply but with the increase in sales, it seems they didn’t increase the flow either, likely for cost reasons. A problem that could have easily been fixed with a little foresight and a quarter million dollar purchase order may very well result in a class action lawsuit at some point.

 

[ARD]

You would think they would be able to come up with some kind of work around until they can get more DEF Heads

I'm curious how they are going to go into production if they don't have DEF heads.

 

[J&JD]

This is true for anyone experiencing the DEF faults with check engine alarm. The more you cycle the engine, the closer you come to derating.

@ARD , maybe you need to start cycling your engine on/off. Is Jake the diesel guy amiable to helping you? Maybe you can travel back & forth to where he performed the regen service in the hope that a stop engine light will come on. Then, perhaps, Jake can get Spartan to overnight the part to him. Sounds strange but in your circumstances I might try anything.

 

[sheridany]

I'm curious how they are going to go into production if they don't have DEF heads.

 

[Neemer]

I'm curious how they are going to go into production if they don't have DEF heads.

They have them for production. Production has highest priority.

 

[ARD]

@ARD , maybe you need to start cycling your engine on/off. Is Jake the diesel guy amiable to helping you? Maybe you can travel back & forth to where he performed the regen service in the hope that a stop engine light will come on. Then, perhaps, Jake can get Spartan to overnight the part to him. Sounds strange but in your circumstances I might try anything.

Yes, there was discussion of this at the other place. I don't want to do this. No one knows how long it could take to derate, so I just need to get as far as possible and park this beastie at NIRVC. Just want to get through the mountains safely.

 

[Neal]

Yes, there was discussion of this at the other place. I don't want to do this. No one knows how long it could take to derate, so I just need to get as far as possible and park this beastie at NIRVC. Just want to get through the mountains safely.

If you can delay a little longer I can provide air cover

 

[ARD]

This can turn into a PR problem for Spartan very soon. Especially given no one really knows what is going on and why it is happening articulated by @Neal. I sure hope they have a crisis management plan because it seems headed in that direction.

It is my understanding that the problem is two fold. The most immediate problem is that they are waiting for chips from China to complete the assembly of the DEF head. The second issue is the sensor itself is problematic and they have not figured out how to make one without issues. I've heard from Spartan that Cummins and Shaw have been testing and trying to come up with something. I don't understand how they are able to keep producing a chassis that they know could leave a customer stranded on the side of the road. There are so many people with brand new coaches that can't even use their coach. This is unconscionable behavior in my opinion. I agree with @sheridany that this will turn into a PR nightmare for Spartan. I've read about a customer canceling their purchase of a 2022 Entegra Cornerstone due to the DEF sensor issues.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

“A PR problem” is the best case scenario. The ambulance chasers are licking their chops and the corporate legal beagles are cowering under their desks.

This has all the earmarks of a big class action lawsuit that puts Spartan and a bunch of RV makers into bankruptcy!

TJ

 

[ARD]

“A PR problem” is the best case scenario. The ambulance chasers are licking their chops and the corporate legal beagles are cowering under their desks.

This has all the earmarks of a big class action lawsuit that puts Spartan and a bunch of RV makers into bankruptcy!

TJ

True that. What a scam. Selling motorhomes that can't be driven. ?

 

[Joe Hogan]

Depending on the state of purchase, there may be Lemon Law legal avenues available. For instance: The Georgia Lemon Law

 

[MapNerd]

@TJ&LadyDi I might have found a temporary solution for your troubles

Sorry @ARD I don’t stock tequila

 

[Neal]

...and the @MapNerd voodoo doll is born that will sit right next to one of me!

 

[MapNerd]

...and the @MapNerd voodoo doll is born that will sit right next to one of me!

Curse me gently

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

@TJ&LadyDi I might have found a temporary solution for your troubles
View attachment 7529
Sorry @ARD I don’t stock tequila

That might work…temporarily! I’m working on one of these right now.

We’re at RV Glass Solutions in Coburg, Oregon, for a windshield replacement. The new glass went in today, final sealing will be done tomorrow and Friday morning they will test the windshield wiper contact on the glass (and adjust, if necessary) before sending us down the road…to another repair appointment. Tonite, we are in their covered bay just outside the shop door. No slides out or jacks down so as not to exert any twist while the sealant cures. It is tight inside, but doable.

I must say that RV Glass Solutions in Coburg runs a class operation. Absolutely no complaints. From the receptionist to the shop manager, and everyone in between, they were absolutely stellar! We have been treated very well! If everyone ran their business like this, most of the complaint threads would not exist.

On Monday, we’ll be at Premier RV Services of Oregon for the Girard awning replacement, air conditioner problem and troubleshooting of why, periodically, we can’t shut the engine off. After that, we’ll have to decide whether we want to drive the DEF head ticking time bomb to Polson or just try to get back home to northwest Washington.

TJ

 

[redbaron]

There is a solution to the Def head. The sensor is using the CAN bus to send a signal that the DEF is proper mixture, and the levels are good. This can be faked. There are many companies that create this type of device, although mainly for the 1 ton diesel truck market, it does also run on the larger OTR trucks.

If it is used along with an actual DEF and DPF in place, there is nothing illegal about it. The fix will just allow the def head to be ignored, and the system will continue to use the DEF fluid.

I have not personally done this , but I do know that this is possible.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

They have them for production. Production has highest priority.

And, therein, lies the heart of the problem; once you have the customer’s money, kiss ‘em goodbye! Just keep selling more units, even if they fail.

TJ

 

[J&JD]

And, therein, lies the heart of the problem; once you have the customer’s money, kiss ‘em goodbye! Just keep selling more units, even if they fail.

TJ

Which is ok if you are manufacturing light bulbs, not rvs or airplanes….God forbid!